Tesla Model 3: End of the Internal-Combustion Engine?

[wazzuFreddo]

Hybrids, by Ca law, have a 10 year, 150K mile warranty on all components of the hybrid system. Full electrics do not. Sorry Tesla/ Bolt onwers...I'll take my 150K mile warranty any day and burn a little gas. Fred too.

The Volt is an awesome piece of tech and a super under rated car. Also seems to have a build quality way above a typical GM product.

The 2nd gen has a 18.1 kWHr battery and will go about 60 miles on a charge. I could make it to work and back without gas at all on a new one. On my gen 1 I top it up on the charger at work.

 

[bruceflinch]

Whatever floats your boat. I think the technology is neat, though.
I think I'll be extinct before the ICE...

 

[Jalopyshoppe]

regardless of your diatribe, the fundamental difference in this example is that apple is entirely self funding. they have never asked their customers to pay for anything that as yet, even speculatively, did not already exist.

That aspect makes me want to compare them (Tesla) to the Skully helmet. The vaporware/crowdfunding aspect is just another level. The mindset of the customer base is still very similar to the Apple customer base. They're still selling on hype rather than product. Tesla just wants the money sooner than Apple did. I'm sure Elon could pay out of pocket for the Model 3's to be built, but the hype and the deposits play right into the exclusivity he's trying to market into his company.

 

[Tharkûn]

There is also more costs to maintaining ICE car, lets not forget that. Not to mention how many cars actually get 40mpgs?

Good point on charging time. Fast chargers are either need to be pretty much at every parking spot, or how charging works needs to be re-thought drastically. Host swapping battery packs with cost of depreciation factored in somehow?

Battery packs would be a great business to, park at work or the mall and hit a request, truck comes along and swaps packs while you're away

 

[tzrider]

That aspect makes me want to compare them (Tesla) to the Skully helmet. The vaporware/crowdfunding aspect is just another level. The mindset of the customer base is still very similar to the Apple customer base. They're still selling on hype rather than product. Tesla just wants the money sooner than Apple did. I'm sure Elon could pay out of pocket for the Model 3's to be built, but the hype and the deposits play right into the exclusivity he's trying to market into his company.

It also tells him in real numbers how many he has to be able to make.

 

[Surj]

Yup, I have lived in this area for too long. $35k is a lot for a second, runabout car.

We drive to LA once every couple of months to visit in-laws and friends. The rental doesn't work for us because we have four dogs, and slobber/shedding happens.

I could get an electric as a commuter, but I'd probably be more inclined to get a Zero. Cheaper, lane-splitting etc.

Exactly. I've commuted extensively on Zeros and a Brammo. It's awesome, and if I didn't have access to so many bikes (meaning I don't commute on the same bike regularly) I'd be seriously considering one. But, it's not even close to being an only bike and the price for a pure commuter bike with one or two day's commute range is hard to swallow.

At 200+ miles it'd be my primary car. The backup car would be the one for road trips.

That would be my plan. Battery car as primary transportation and a used Tahoe/Suburban for family road trips. I'm not taking a fancy car to Mexico anytime soon anyhow.

The thread title is "end of the internal combustion engine." Not much of an end if you still have to own an IC-powered car or hybrid because your expensive commuter / status symbol can't do anything other than your daily commute. Classic Bay Area.

A lot of people seem to be taking the 215 mile range as gospel. It's extremely unlikely that's real world range, especially for a throttle junky audience such as BARF. In real world riding, I've generally seen 50-70% of quoted range on electric bikes.

 

[sckego]

That aspect makes me want to compare them (Tesla) to the Skully helmet. The vaporware/crowdfunding aspect is just another level.

If you were comparing Tesla ten years ago (never delivered a product, taking deposits on something only seen in pictures/prototype, no production facilities or infrastructure), I'd agree with you. You're now comparing a company that has delivered somewhere around $10B of product in the past few years, with huge (and still rapidly growing) production capabilities... Serious question: do you *really* think it's vaporware?

 

[Zerox]

Exactly. I've commuted extensively on Zeros and a Brammo. It's awesome, and if I didn't have access to so many bikes (meaning I don't commute on the same bike regularly) I'd be seriously considering one. But, it's not even close to being an only bike and the price for a pure commuter bike with one or two day's commute range is hard to swallow.

Same as any other new technology, it's expensive at first, then gets less expensive with time as it reaches mass adoption. As the technology continues to get faster/better/lighter etc.

I remember when 16 MB of RAM was $1,000.

 

[Gabe]

Seems like I'm one of the few who have no interest in owning a Tesla or electric ? Seems so blah and soulless to me. I really hope / think Gabe is wrong about no one buying gas in 10 years.

I think I am wrong, actually, as I exaggerated. But the market will have flipped by then--5% gas and everything else will be electric or hybrid. there will always be enthusiasts who want to drive/ride gas. After all, there will always be a market for horses and Civil-War uniforms, right?

 

[Zerox]

I think I am wrong, actually, as I exaggerated. But the market will have flipped by then--5% gas and everything else will be electric or hybrid. there will always be enthusiasts who want to drive/ride gas. After all, there will always be a market for horses and Civil-War uniforms, right?

And there will always be those selfish ones who insist on driving a modified vehicle with no catalytic converter, shitting on the air we breathe.

Thanks, selfish ones. We're all in this together to make the world a better place for now and the future.

 

[Gabe]

And there will always be those selfish ones who insist on driving a modified vehicle with no catalytic converter, shitting on the air we breathe.

Thanks, selfish ones. We're all in this together to make the world a better place for now and the future.

I think you described about 95% of BARFers!

 

[Zerox]

I think you described about 95% of BARFers!

We've got to change barf from within. Spread the anti-pollution love.

 

[UDRider]

Battery packs would be a great business to, park at work or the mall and hit a request, truck comes along and swaps packs while you're away

Could be. Just costs need to figured out. Also battery age. What if someone has new brand new battery. Will they be OK with 5 year old one that gets swapped in. I guess if batteries get swapped all the time it won't matter to consumers, but just like with musical chairs need to figure out what happens when some one is stuck with EOL battery and who is paying for replacement.

 

[Blankpage]

Don't carry 5yr old batteries. Offer a service where all batteries are less than a year old.

 

[Tharkûn]

I think I am wrong, actually, as I exaggerated. But the market will have flipped by then--5% gas and everything else will be electric or hybrid. there will always be enthusiasts who want to drive/ride gas. After all, there will always be a market for horses and Civil-War uniforms, right?

We'll all be right here still in ten years, I'll say they'll be 50% of new cars sold and maybe 20% of what's on the road. I like electric cars but they're not taking over quite yet

 

[Killroy1999]

Could be. Just costs need to figured out. Also battery age. What if someone has new brand new battery. Will they be OK with 5 year old one that gets swapped in. I guess if batteries get swapped all the time it won't matter to consumers, but just like with musical chairs need to figure out what happens when some one is stuck with EOL battery and who is paying for replacement.

Supercharging has proved to be more practical than battery swap.

 

[Jalopyshoppe]

And there will always be those selfish ones who insist on driving a modified vehicle with no catalytic converter, shitting on the air we breathe.

Thanks, selfish ones. We're all in this together to make the world a better place for now and the future.

When emissions testing becomes less of a farce and more realistic, people looking for real performance will be more apt to seek efficiency instead or volume. Our choices now are to own something pre 1976 and retrofit archaic performance options or go through obscene amounts of red tape to optimize a later model car. Removing pollution controls on my "beloved" Pintos lowers NOx levels, increases power, fuel economy and driveability. But, doing so fails smog. I'll be the first to champion the awesome performance things like direct injection and modern EFI have given us. But, I can't drop an ecoboost in my 77 Pinto without an act of Congress. However, tax credits are handed out for electric car purchases which consume substantial amounts of new resources.

 

[kevin 714]

Personally know 5 people that dropped s deposit

 

[UDRider]

Don't carry 5yr old batteries. Offer a service where all batteries are less than a year old.

The point remains. Who is paying for new ones and disposing of the old ones?

Supercharging has proved to be more practical than battery swap.

How long does that take? Even it is 15 minutes to full charge, it is sill too long, The chargers will need to be everywhere to be useful.

I think the future is the plug in hybrids. I don't see infrastructure changing so drastically to allow chargers to be everywhere. Fully electrics will remain as a second or third car.

 

[phocup]

And there will always be those selfish ones who insist on driving a modified vehicle with no catalytic converter, shitting on the air we breathe.

Thanks, selfish ones. We're all in this together to make the world a better place for now and the future.

From what I read .. electric cars are no greener than as counterpart due to the battery manufacturing process .. has this changed?