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The Electric Motorcycle Thread

I'm probably biased as an Energica owner but if I recall correctly, the Energica's DC charge at a faster rate than the Livewire.

3kw AC charging is significantly faster than what the Livewire offers since even when plugged into a Level2 240v charger, it will still only charge at a 110v rate.

So faster DC charging and true 240v charging (even at 3kw) is still way ahead of the Livewire for everyday use.

In the case of Zero, since they're the only manufacturer currently offering 6kw (I don't count the 12kw option since the number of public 240v chargers in the US that can support that are extremely rare), I would argue a 6kw Zero is far more usable than the Livewire as well for daily use.
 
MikeL said:
Are they way ahead of HD?

For size, yes, they are larger. For charging they don't really have an advantage except level 2, but at 3kWH that ain't much.

HD I would argue (from most reports) has far better cooling and airflow design for their battery. Although this isn't issue for the majority of consumers. Most are not pushing multiple DC Fast charges a day nor are they racing them daily.

Whatever Zero's reason is for not having DC (technical or otherwise) it has put them on the backburner for most I believe. When you pay ~23k for a top tier electric bike and it doesn't come with DC fast charging? :thumbdown
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Energica charges 3x faster on a home charger and also charges faster on a DC charger.

HD has language in their warranty saying that you cannot exceed DC fast charging for 25% of the miles you do, otherwise the battery warranty is void. This does not give me confidence.

And I agree about Zero. Doesn't make sense to have a bike with a 14.4 battery and no DC charging at that price point.
 
bigpoppa said:
I'm probably biased as an Energica owner but if I recall correctly, the Energica's DC charge at a faster rate than the Livewire.

3kw AC charging is significantly faster than what the Livewire offers since even when plugged into a Level2 240v charger, it will still only charge at a 110v rate.

So faster DC charging and true 240v charging (even at 3kw) is still way ahead of the Livewire for everyday use.

In the case of Zero, since they're the only manufacturer currently offering 6kw (I don't count the 12kw option since the number of public 240v chargers in the US that can support that are extremely rare), I would argue a 6kw Zero is far more usable than the Livewire as well for daily use.
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Some Zeros are charging with after market AC chargers at >6kW by plugging into two J1772 plugs at the same time. This is obviously hogging a plug, but if know one is using it and if you will be out of there ~2X as fast, the go for it.

I a DigiNow ~6kW charger and its not big compared to the 1.3kW charger that came with the bike, so to me its a pity that new electric motorcycles have <6kW of AC charging.

As I said before, I also see it as sad that Zero did not increase the voltage of their pack to allow DC fast charging. Perhaps not a lack of vision but a lack of resources for the engineering and capital.
 
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Anyone have an update on HD Labs here in Silicon Valley. I know they were recruiting months ago because they called me. I would have looked into it, but it sounded like there were looking for a lower paying position. Good luck with that!
 
Yeah I wish my Empulse had a 6 KWH charger, it's painful waiting to charge at 3KWH. If your not watching it, it's ok but if you need to get anywhere fast good luck.

There's not too many DC Fastchargers also. I'm planning on renting an Eva for my birthday and it's tough finding a DC fastcharger. I'l make it work some how =P

It's been discussed here many times but the reason Zero can't go with DC fastcharging is they need a higher voltage battery like 300V. So they would have to totally reegineer their battery pack and charging system. I know the Empulse runs like 105volts or something not even close.

The HD will charge really slow like 10 hours to full charge the battery off a regular outlet or charging station. It's ok if you are charging at home. On the road though would not be much fun. If you are on the road DC fastcharge should be awesome.


Also about the F3 scooter.. err motorcycle I would think it rides more like a motorcycle because it actually has footpegs. It just looks scootery. The biggest difference between a scooter and motorcycle is the footpegs. Scooter generally have a deck or platforms and motorcycles have footpegs. I guess that would make those big cruisers scooters haha. Size wise it looks like it's maybe slightly bigger than a minibike like a grom or something. It's might be the same size as a Light Bee.
 
I just gotta say... I just bought another Alta. 2018 SM. Fun to follow.
 
HadesOmega said:
There's not too many DC Fastchargers also. I'm planning on renting an Eva for my birthday and it's tough finding a DC fastcharger. I'l make it work some how =P

It's been discussed here many times but the reason Zero can't go with DC
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Define not too many. There seems to be a ton of them around according to Plugshare.
 

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Never anywhere I wanna go we'll find out when I rent it, it's gonna be a charging adventure. But yeah see all those voids in there? A lot of the chargers are in in convenient places. I can't even get the Eva up over hamilton and mines rd according to the owner.

Another thing I've noticed is A LOT of ev chargers are not maintained or not functioning. I guess because of the pandemic a lot of them aren't being taken care of. The solar chargerstations at Sonoma raceway dont' work anymore. I used them earlier this year for a trackday, but since then no workie. I did find out today paypal has unrestricted chargepoint chargers =P There is an electrify america charger that's near my house that just sits there non functioning a whole year. I did see a dude working on it today and asked him if that station would be working and he said it would be tonight, and well I went back tonight and still not working. The EV charger network just sucks.
 
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Butch said:
I just gotta say... I just bought another Alta. 2018 SM. Fun to follow.
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Should take it out to the Sonoma kart track on the 13th (Sunday) is a moto trackday.
 
HadesOmega said:
Also about the F3 scooter.. err motorcycle I would think it rides more like a motorcycle because it actually has footpegs. It just looks scootery. The biggest difference between a scooter and motorcycle is the footpegs. Scooter generally have a deck or platforms and motorcycles have footpegs. I guess that would make those big cruisers scooters haha. Size wise it looks like it's maybe slightly bigger than a minibike like a grom or something. It's might be the same size as a Light Bee.
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it's an underbone! popular in southeast asian countries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPSCn2wGXXY
2018-ARRC-Underbone-Haziq.jpg
 
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dittoalex said:
Energica seems to have nerfed the 110 charge rate for the 21 kWh batteries so it takes 30+ hours.
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So much for the "~our bike is better because it has more lines of code than the space shuttle" marketing.

I'm not sure what is going on there, the current when plugged into a 110v should be safe at ~12 Amps.


On another note, I see that the Energica battery is still passively air cooled. They have a air channel down then middle of the pack, but I would guess that this would a limitation of the system. I wonder what its like in real life in the twists or the track.
 
SR/F review - definitely worth the watch.

[YOUTUBE]CjIXCD2-CdU[/YOUTUBE]
 
Here's an article about the SR/S vs the Livewire. They also mention that finding DC fastchargers is harder than Level 2 stations. So that proves my point there's not enough DC fastchargers. So with the Livewire you are at the mercy of the DC fastcharger network or ultra slow Level 1 charging everywhere else.

One way to solve it ENERGICA... DC fastercharging and Level 2 charging.

They mention the SR/S can get like 161 miles city range and 125 freeway range. I'm like BS doubt it will do that IRL. You might get it to do 100 maybe on the a warm day. That 14kwh battery pack is not much bigger than the one in the Empulse and I'm getting 60 miles of IRL range.

https://www.revzilla.com/common-tre...Link&cjevent=f74f621d376a11eb8381014f0a1c0e13
 
dittoalex said:
Energica seems to have nerfed the 110 charge rate for the 21 kWh batteries so it takes 30+ hours.
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Well it takes 10 hours to charge the 10.5kwh pack in the Empulse. soooo it would take like 20 hours to charge the Ribelle. So what's the surprise? Those EV with extremely large battery packs like a Model S 100 take FOREVER to charge at Level 1, like days to charge. You need to have a Level 2 at home or just drive it to the supercharger all the time.
 
Dayum that BAC8000 power!! I have the 4000 on my Sur Ron.

[YOUTUBE]MD3PHMo2aYk[/YOUTUBE]
 
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