The Home Grower's Thread

[byke]

oh man, this thread brings back memories of icmag...

i would get 1g/watt running 4x4 tray with 1000w flood and drain

That's awesome. Anytime you're pulling 2lbs from 1k, you're doing great. Do you remember any details on the flood and drain setup? Did you get one of those 5g setups with a timer that you connect to a larger reservoir, or did you put together a custom deal?

I already get letters from PG&E over my electricity use and I run a single LED arragy now.

Think I'm only going to grow indoor during the winter months to take advantage of the cool temps so I won't have to a/c anything.

 

[Smash Allen]

That's awesome. Anytime you're pulling 2lbs from 1k, you're doing great. Do you remember any details on the flood and drain setup? Did you get one of those 5g setups with a timer that you connect to a larger reservoir, or did you put together a custom deal?

ran blue dream clones, had separate veg room w/ mothers
1 clone per sq/ft or 16 per tray in plastic netted pots with hydroton
50? gallon res under tray with timer and pump that would fill within a few minutes and then let it drain, fed a few times a day

i would give clones 5 days of 18/6 to get their feet established before flipping to 12/12 for 10 weeks or so

ran lucas ratio iirc 2:1 nutes super simple and cheap using gh nutes flower only

fields of donkey dicks

edit: it's easy to get big g/watt if you veg forever but i ran minimal veg time for increased harvests per year while keeping the 1g/watt and it was always top shelf to harborside and boutiques around san jo...if you bought clones or toked on some primo bd from harborside or santa cruz naturally between 2009-2011 it was probably mine

 

[HappyHighwayman]

Does my topping for Mainlining look ok? In the photos of other people's theirs tended to have what looks like more than one leaf at the end of the stem. Is mine looking like something that will grow out properly?

 

[Rambeezi]

ran blue dream clones, had separate veg room w/ mothers
1 clone per sq/ft or 16 per tray in plastic netted pots with hydroton
50? gallon res under tray with timer and pump that would fill within a few minutes and then let it drain, fed a few times a day

i would give clones 5 days of 18/6 to get their feet established before flipping to 12/12 for 10 weeks or so

ran lucas ratio iirc 2:1 nutes super simple and cheap using gh nutes flower only

fields of donkey dicks

edit: it's easy to get big g/watt if you veg forever but i ran minimal veg time for increased harvests per year while keeping the 1g/watt and it was always top shelf to harborside and boutiques around san jo...if you bought clones or toked on some primo bd from harborside or santa cruz naturally between 2009-2011 it was probably mine

<sigh> Many many fond memories of massive harvests with Blue Dream. That was a commercial farmer's wet dream right there. Wish I still had a cut/clone. Never achieved 1gm/watt though. Even with BD you had to have to be on top of your grow system to get that kind of results. Good times!!

 

[byke]

ran blue dream clones, had separate veg room w/ mothers
1 clone per sq/ft or 16 per tray in plastic netted pots with hydroton
50? gallon res under tray with timer and pump that would fill within a few minutes and then let it drain, fed a few times a day

i would give clones 5 days of 18/6 to get their feet established before flipping to 12/12 for 10 weeks or so

ran lucas ratio iirc 2:1 nutes super simple and cheap using gh nutes flower only

fields of donkey dicks

edit: it's easy to get big g/watt if you veg forever but i ran minimal veg time for increased harvests per year while keeping the 1g/watt and it was always top shelf to harborside and boutiques around san jo...if you bought clones or toked on some primo bd from harborside or santa cruz naturally between 2009-2011 it was probably mine

Ahhhh, blue dream. Curious how something like cookies/kush/glue would do.

From the little I've read, it sounds like there's no clear winner in more-plants-less-veg versus fewer-plants-longer-veg, for a given grow space and setup. Another fellow I know that grows indoor goes with 9 in a 4x4, figured I'd start there. Not sure how long to veg though.

Does my topping for Mainlining look ok? In the photos of other people's theirs tended to have what looks like more than one leaf at the end of the stem. Is mine looking like something that will grow out properly?

Aside from maybe being a little early, I think it looks great. Interested to see bud uniformity as she grows.

<sigh> Many many fond memories of massive harvests with Blue Dream. That was a commercial farmer's wet dream right there. Wish I still had a cut/clone. Never achieved 1gm/watt though. Even with BD you had to have to be on top of your grow system to get that kind of results. Good times!!

Yeah I quite like blue dream and variants, especially dream queen. Love those sweet/fruity smelling strains. It's my goto for watching Bob's Burgers.

 

[Smash Allen]

<sigh> Many many fond memories of massive harvests with Blue Dream. That was a commercial farmer's wet dream right there. Wish I still had a cut/clone. Never achieved 1gm/watt though. Even with BD you had to have to be on top of your grow system to get that kind of results. Good times!!

true that

soda can nugs so big and dense it called for massive airflow exchange and ozone treatment between runs to keep the powdery mildew away

 

[Smash Allen]

From the little I've read, it sounds like there's no clear winner in more-plants-less-veg versus fewer-plants-longer-veg, for a given grow space and setup. Another fellow I know that grows indoor goes with 9 in a 4x4, figured I'd start there. Not sure how long to veg though.

my goal was most weight at top shelf quality per year

more plants and less veg lets you harvest more times per year and so you end up with more weight per year

are you talking 9 clones of same age and same strain per tray? are their feet poking out of the cube? established mother? hybrid sat / ind? if yes to all i would veg for 10 days, if there is a no somewhere then it depends

 

[byke]

I see, I think you're talking about running veg/flower in the same space. I'm talking about vegging and flower areas being separate, so that your flower time is the same regardless of how big they are when you flip. Again, just what I've read, but it sounds like there's no consensus as to which produces more, fewer/bigger versus more/smaller. Probably doesn't matter when the space/light is the limiting factor.

 

[Smash Allen]

I see, I think you're talking about running veg/flower in the same space. I'm talking about vegging and flower areas being separate, so that your flower time is the same regardless of how big they are when you flip. Again, just what I've read, but it sounds like there's no consensus as to which produces more, fewer/bigger versus more/smaller. Probably doesn't matter when the space/light is the limiting factor.

i'm also talking about separate rooms...

my veg room was a clone factory with no space for lazy adolescent girls that are not producing themselves...

 

[byke]

Gotcha. In that case I don't quite follow this part..

more plants and less veg lets you harvest more times per year and so you end up with more weight per year

How do you harvest more/less times per year? Like if you have separate veg/flower rooms and with the strain determining the length of flower, how does time in veg affect the number of pulls a year? Seems like if a strain took 8.66 weeks to flower, you'd get six pulls a year and that's it, regardless of the size of the plant...no?

 

[Smash Allen]

How do you harvest more/less times per year? Like if you have separate veg/flower rooms and with the strain determining the length of flower, how does time in veg affect the number of pulls a year? Seems like if a strain took 8.66 weeks to flower, you'd get six pulls a year and that's it, regardless of the size of the plant...no?

You are right in that it takes the same amount of time to flower, but the things that happen before flower and after flower are sped up using more plants with less vegetation time.

 

[byke]

I'm not super savvy to indoor, so I dunno what veg short/long veg times translate to, plus some plants stretch way more than others. I'm assuming that when people run fewer & bigger plants that the veg time never exceeds flower time, so that there's no downtime on the flower space.

When my buddy was talking about growing nine in an indoor space, my first thought was that even that was too many, but when I'm standing next to a 4x4 tray in person, I can see how it really isn't.

You flowered 16 in a 4x4? What did you do to manage growth? Same number of colas per plant? At first I was thinking of making a manifold for top/drip feed, but now that I'm leaning towards flood and drain. I suppose there's really no drawback for stuffing more plants in there, aside from spending a little extra in clones.

 

[Smash Allen]

I looked up my diary and it was actually 29 plants on the 4x4 and I was planning on doubling to 60. Came away with 1200g or 2.6lbs and with 60 would have gotten 3 easily or around 1.3-1.4 g/watt

Managed growth by using stakes and that was pretty much it. Short veg time leaves one main cola

 

[Mike95060]

Was the main turnoff to indoor the cost of running that 1000 watt hps? Cost played a big role in deciding to try this. It's going to start as a little veg tent, but even still I didn't want to spend for name brand stuff. Vivosun gets good reviews and it hits that "cheapest you can find of decent quality" pricepoint, so you can get almost everything for just the cost of a gorilla tent. And since it's for veg, the little 315 will do fine.

I like outdoor too, but it was getting out of hand. The helicopter would circle and give the sign language equivalent of, "you should probably stop that", plus the county came out and had me cut a bunch down. I wanna do a little indoor and maybe a couple outdoor next year and that's it. Low key and off the radar.

Do you remember what you were able to pull from that 4x4 tent with 1000 watt hps in the 4x4 and what strains?

So Where do I start. My original intention with the indoor was to clone semi-commercially. I have a friend who is quite successful at it and it seemed like a nice way to have a lucrative side job. I tried to have mothers in a 5x5 full veg with the 1000 watt HPS and babies in a 4x4 with metal racks and florescent shop lights. (babies don't need much wattage) Truth is I never was that good at it. I didn't take the time to have really healthy mothers. I have come to think the best moms come from seeds, and the cost of running that 1000 watt HPS for 18 to 22 hrs a day all the time took its toll. I want to say the PG&E jumped like $250-300/month and that was hard to absorb when you are not selling any clones. On top of that trying to clone at 2-3 trays per week and have a "real" job and be a half way decent dad was just too much work. Not enough hours in the day or energy to stay awake. It sure can be done but it just wan't for me. The final nail in the coffin for my cloning was when I got stiffed out of 2 trays by a local dispensary. They said they found a mite on one of my clones but they never called me to come pick up the trays. They just never paid me. Assholes.

Something to keep in mind if you want to do things commercially is at some point you are going to have to decide if you are ok with using some pesticides. I am very skeptical that grows can be done continually without ever needing at least some emergency chemistry. I wasn't ok with using any of that in an area where my kids would be (the garage.) Now I don't think its so bad to use some chemistry during veg and some pesticides are much safer than others but, what I have found is I can get what I need for me outside under the sun with healthy plants and minimal loss form mold or bugs without much chemistry at all. Probably less as I get better at keeping the plants healthy.

I did try to flower in my 5x5 a few times under that 1000 watt HPS. I ran one strain named Purple Alien that came out great. It was an indica dominant hybrid. I have pics somewhere but that run was nice. I didn't weigh it so nothing scientific to tell you about yield. Sorry. I also had one disaster. I tried to do a SOG with Sour Diesel clones (30 of them maybe?) that were only in veg for maybe 2 weeks. The plants looked great but the buds were terrible. Pithy no wight and smoked like garbage. I am chalking that failure up to not enough wattage. I don't think you can do a sativa or sativa dominant hybrid in a 5X5 with just 1000 watts. My experience jives with what I have read in Ed Rosenthal's book,

https://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Growers-Handbook-Complete-Cultivation/dp/0932551467

I think two 750 watt lamps would be the minimum for a 5x5 that you wanted to flower sativa's in.

I still have that 4x4 gorilla tent, I think the 5x5 is being used by a neighbor kid but I will have to check if he still needs it. Its a family friend I loaned it to so it could come back. The phantom digital ballast is nice, its dim-able for a 750 or 500 watt lamp and can run off of 220 if you get the right cord. I alwase ran it 1000 watt 110 so the cost was a bit more. I don't know what it would cost to run 220.

Anyway, that is what I know man. Indoor is soo much fun. There is nothing like peeking into your own little habitat and seeing the treasures grow. It just was too expensive a hobby for me to keep up and do all the other things I want to do. If i was as good as Smash at it I might still be doing it but I;m good with playing outside for now.

 

[byke]

I looked up my diary and it was actually 29 plants on the 4x4 and I was planning on doubling to 60. Came away with 1200g or 2.6lbs and with 60 would have gotten 3 easily or around 1.3-1.4 g/watt

Managed growth by using stakes and that was pretty much it. Short veg time leaves one main cola

Right on. The nice thing about one main cola is it's essentially the same as mainlining, but without the labor and lost growth time due to recovery. Difference between 29 and 60 in a 4x4 tray works out to roughly 9" pots with no spacing and 6" pots with no spacing. Bit of a tight space for a cola at 6", but not too bad at 9". Might make for better light penetration deeper into the canopy as well. I'm going to rethink the plant count.

 

[Smash Allen]

Right on. The nice thing about one main cola is it's essentially the same as mainlining, but without the labor and lost growth time due to recovery. Difference between 29 and 60 in a 4x4 tray works out to roughly 9" pots with no spacing and 6" pots with no spacing. Bit of a tight space for a cola at 6", but not too bad at 9". Might make for better light penetration deeper into the canopy as well. I'm going to rethink the plant count.

Using the magnum xxxl reflector with glass and ducting let me drop the light to 10” or so above the canopy without heat burn. Also used styrofoam sheets from home dePot as walls around the tray to keep the intensity up. Used a light meter to ensure consistent pir values. I had a normal sized room 12x12? To work with, if there is less less space the airflow exchange becomes even more important especially with a tent. You’ll need ac either way unless you have outside air available.

This talk is making me sadl... I have had maybe five times in five years that I’ve experienced similar quality and strength of what came out of there... depressing really... the biggest gains in potency come during the cure... which doesn’t even start until the bud is dryish... which is when most people dump on the market... mine never left before RH had stabilized and properly cured...

This is the most I’ve talked about this sort of thing in five years, makes me feel jumpy and on edge even though it’s all well behind me... all I can say is do not try and form your collective over craigslist... even if they have a valid rec...

 

[byke]

The tents are going in the opposite side of the house from the fireplace and it stays pretty cold during the winter. We get a couple feet of snow every year, so I'm hoping not to a/c this room. I've read that people are able to keep their 4x4 tent with 4" fan about 10 degrees from ambient, which means I'll probably need a heater if it's just one 315w fixture in there.

The rough plan is to use these tents for veg and then move into another space for flower. The flower room is halfway there and I have lights, reflective siding and power, but still need tables and reservoirs and pumps/timers. In there will either be four 3x3 trays or two 3x6 trays. I'm a little worried about the power bill, so I may end up flowering in these tents and letting the flower room sit.

Interesting what you're saying about drying. Another buddy I chat with that does a little indoor cuts the entire plant and cures slowly over a two week period. He's a low-volume-high-quality boutique type of grower and people really like his stuff. Personally, I haven't developed an ability to discern good/bad tasting weed. I can yank a green nug off a plant and smoke it and aside from burning terribly and being a little harsher, it doesn't seem *that* different to me.

Word, no CL for me, though I did find an ad for clones from a reputable local company. Might check them out when I get close. What are the laws like in your area? Here, I'm perfectly legal with a small indoor/outdoor setup. You get 50sq-ft, plus they ignore plant count as long as you have a recommendation and are within said square footage. The county enforcement guys are mellow and won't write you up if you're a little over your footage. They let me keep four outdoor at about 25sq-ft a piece. They're really after the big operations where people are clear cutting multiple acres for greenhouses. In urban areas, they're usually after those shitty whole-house grows. I bet you'd be fine with just a bedroom and almost certainly be fine with a 4x4/5x5/6x6/4x8 tent.

 

[byke]

So Where do I start. My original intention with the indoor was to clone semi-commercially. I have a friend who is quite successful at it and it seemed like a nice way to have a lucrative side job. I tried to have mothers in a 5x5 full veg with the 1000 watt HPS and babies in a 4x4 with metal racks and florescent shop lights. (babies don't need much wattage) Truth is I never was that good at it. I didn't take the time to have really healthy mothers. I have come to think the best moms come from seeds, and the cost of running that 1000 watt HPS for 18 to 22 hrs a day all the time took its toll. I want to say the PG&E jumped like $250-300/month and that was hard to absorb when you are not selling any clones. On top of that trying to clone at 2-3 trays per week and have a "real" job and be a half way decent dad was just too much work. Not enough hours in the day or energy to stay awake. It sure can be done but it just wan't for me. The final nail in the coffin for my cloning was when I got stiffed out of 2 trays by a local dispensary. They said they found a mite on one of my clones but they never called me to come pick up the trays. They just never paid me. Assholes.

Something to keep in mind if you want to do things commercially is at some point you are going to have to decide if you are ok with using some pesticides. I am very skeptical that grows can be done continually without ever needing at least some emergency chemistry. I wasn't ok with using any of that in an area where my kids would be (the garage.) Now I don't think its so bad to use some chemistry during veg and some pesticides are much safer than others but, what I have found is I can get what I need for me outside under the sun with healthy plants and minimal loss form mold or bugs without much chemistry at all. Probably less as I get better at keeping the plants healthy.

I did try to flower in my 5x5 a few times under that 1000 watt HPS. I ran one strain named Purple Alien that came out great. It was an indica dominant hybrid. I have pics somewhere but that run was nice. I didn't weigh it so nothing scientific to tell you about yield. Sorry. I also had one disaster. I tried to do a SOG with Sour Diesel clones (30 of them maybe?) that were only in veg for maybe 2 weeks. The plants looked great but the buds were terrible. Pithy no wight and smoked like garbage. I am chalking that failure up to not enough wattage. I don't think you can do a sativa or sativa dominant hybrid in a 5X5 with just 1000 watts. My experience jives with what I have read in Ed Rosenthal's book,

https://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Growers-Handbook-Complete-Cultivation/dp/0932551467

I think two 750 watt lamps would be the minimum for a 5x5 that you wanted to flower sativa's in.

I still have that 4x4 gorilla tent, I think the 5x5 is being used by a neighbor kid but I will have to check if he still needs it. Its a family friend I loaned it to so it could come back. The phantom digital ballast is nice, its dim-able for a 750 or 500 watt lamp and can run off of 220 if you get the right cord. I alwase ran it 1000 watt 110 so the cost was a bit more. I don't know what it would cost to run 220.

Anyway, that is what I know man. Indoor is soo much fun. There is nothing like peeking into your own little habitat and seeing the treasures grow. It just was too expensive a hobby for me to keep up and do all the other things I want to do. If i was as good as Smash at it I might still be doing it but I;m good with playing outside for now.

Ahhhh, cloning does seem like fun, albeit seasonal. You're absolutely right the best mothers come from seeds, but you could buy a clone from a seed and keep cloning that. Or, you could go on a pheno-hunt and clone your best ones, that'd be pretty fun! I'm hoping to keep my pge jump less than that with two 315's, sounds like it might be doable.

Right, the quandary of chemicals. I feel the same way and the last thing I'd be willing to do is effing poison someone. I'd smash all this grow stuff with a hammer before I did that. I'm really lucky to have a mentor that's all about growing the right way.

The cost to run 120 or 240 should be the same. Utilities bill by watt hours, so it's roughly the same either way. A light pulling ten amps at 120v would pull five amps at 240v, so the wattage(volts x amps) is the same. In reality there will be small differences, but insignificant imo.

Gonna go order that book...

 

[Smash Allen]

The tents are going in the opposite side of the house from the fireplace and it stays pretty cold during the winter. We get a couple feet of snow every year, so I'm hoping not to a/c this room. I've read that people are able to keep their 4x4 tent with 4" fan about 10 degrees from ambient, which means I'll probably need a heater if it's just one 315w fixture in there.

The rough plan is to use these tents for veg and then move into another space for flower. The flower room is halfway there and I have lights, reflective siding and power, but still need tables and reservoirs and pumps/timers. In there will either be four 3x3 trays or two 3x6 trays. I'm a little worried about the power bill, so I may end up flowering in these tents and letting the flower room sit.

Interesting what you're saying about drying. Another buddy I chat with that does a little indoor cuts the entire plant and cures slowly over a two week period. He's a low-volume-high-quality boutique type of grower and people really like his stuff. Personally, I haven't developed an ability to discern good/bad tasting weed. I can yank a green nug off a plant and smoke it and aside from burning terribly and being a little harsher, it doesn't seem *that* different to me.

Word, no CL for me, though I did find an ad for clones from a reputable local company. Might check them out when I get close. What are the laws like in your area? Here, I'm perfectly legal with a small indoor/outdoor setup. You get 50sq-ft, plus they ignore plant count as long as you have a recommendation and are within said square footage. The county enforcement guys are mellow and won't write you up if you're a little over your footage. They let me keep four outdoor at about 25sq-ft a piece. They're really after the big operations where people are clear cutting multiple acres for greenhouses. In urban areas, they're usually after those shitty whole-house grows. I bet you'd be fine with just a bedroom and almost certainly be fine with a 4x4/5x5/6x6/4x8 tent.

That sounds like a good plan

Not in the industry anymore but I believe that I can grow indoor up to six plants which will be enough for me, around 8oz / 10wk with zero veg time. Using just 600w with a 4x4 tent in a spare room with unit ac if needed. Just have to refill the nutes every week or so.

I'm tired of the lack of consistency in quality and potency, but I need to finish my other projects first.

 

[HappyHighwayman]

My topped plant isn't doing anything. It's alive and healthy and the two leaves are green and the main trunk is thick but it's not growing in such a way as it would give me place to top again. Did I do something wrong? It was topped on Oct 27....perhaps it's still too young?