saizai
New member
Flashlight was used by the ranger, not by us. It was plenty bright enough for us. Sorry if that was unclear.
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Ticketed for being in a park after hours
- Thread starter saizai
- Start date
Flashlight was used by the ranger, not by us. It was plenty bright enough for us. Sorry if that was unclear.
scalvert
New member
My advise: re-read this thread from the beginning reading only your posts and MM4L's. Follow his advise and hope for the best. Laid out as he says your case seems very solid and very court friendly. It seems you were probably in violation of the letter of the law, that the letter of the law wasn't clear from the sign or knowledge you should reasonable be expected to have, and that if you lose you're kinda getting screwed. From the simple case MM4L laid out the judge will be able to see that if he wants to, and if he doesn't want to see it none of the other angles you proposed will help.
Welcome to the Big City, when we can say with certainty that all the killers on death row are ACTUALLY guilty I'll care about your very minor loss here.
Welcome to the Big City, when we can say with certainty that all the killers on death row are ACTUALLY guilty I'll care about your very minor loss here.
masameet
Rawr!
If the ranger mentions that he found you and your friends by flashlight, that's not going to help your argument that it was still bright enough for you.
beaker
Member
Judge Judy time!
saizai
New member
Question re fines:
If we were to pay it off now, no trial, would it be $35 or the combined $160? Ditto, if we lost at trial by declaration and ended there; ditto if we lost at trial proper.
If we were to pay it off now, no trial, would it be $35 or the combined $160? Ditto, if we lost at trial by declaration and ended there; ditto if we lost at trial proper.
arnoha
New member
He hasn't listened to MM4L, hasn't listened to everyone else in the thread, whose voices have been in unison, what makes you think he'd listen to you? In this thread and every other thread I've ever seen a post by this fellow, it's been argumentative, and it's been inflexible. He's not asking for advice. He's asking for an argument here and every other thread with his handle in it.
Dove
productively obsessed
Deep.
I think you should go to court, lose...then come to BARF and tell us all how you made the ranger look stupid and how the judge totally loved what you said and that you won and stuff.
}Dragon{
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ︵ ╯(°□° ╯)
I think you should go to court, lose...then come to BARF and tell us all how you made the ranger look stupid and how the judge totally loved what you said and that you won cash & prizes.
Fixed^^^
saizai
New member
I think you missed the parts where I agreed repeatedly with MM4L and thanked him for his advice - which I've nearly always done.
Yes, I'm asking for advice. That doesn't mean I'll agree with all of it, and that doesn't mean I'm not going to have my own ideas. The point of posting 'em here is to get feedback on them (some of it more useful than others - MM4L being at the top of the list per usual).
I think you mistake my style of figuring out how things work for argument in the combative sense. It's not intended that way, at least.
T-1 Thunder
newbie
Deep.
I think you should go to court, lose...then come to BARF and tell us all how you made the ranger look stupid and how the judge totally loved what you said and that you won and stuff.
Do it. And here's a whole new stragedy for you(it worked for me!):
When the judge asks your plea - say "Guilty as sin, sir!"
If you make him smile, like mine did - you may get half off, like I did.
PS: My ticket was no headlight and no helmet and no M1 license on dirtbike after dark on street(ticket for license and headlight only).
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saizai
New member
Dunno if the bolded is a typo or an intentional pun (strategy + tragedy), but it made me laugh.
The judge probably figured half the fine was worth paying for the funniest part of his week.
}Dragon{
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ︵ ╯(°□° ╯)
The judge probably figured half the fine was worth paying for the funniest part of his week.
You should always carry a good watch.
saizai
New member
Sosrsly, what would be the situation re fines (from my last question)?
arnoha
New member
You may want to rethink the way you approach things, then. The sarcastic remarks you're getting from everyone is a more subtle way of telling you what I said bluntly: your attitude is not helping. I know; I've been there. I'm still working on my own approach to things like this. Takes one to know one, right? I'm not the only one to notice: note the red dot under your name.
T1 Thunder was in a similar position. His attitude, though different and more destructive than yours, was causing him grief here. Wonder of all wonders, he changed. (I sure as hell wasn't expecting that!) He's almost earned his way off my ignore list and only one other person has ever managed to do that. What's more, all the comments about Blunder threads and like have all but disappeared.
Just friendly advice. Take it as you will.
nakedape
Well-known member
I think i read carefully enough, and all I could hear over and over again was,
"..just asked a few quick clarifying questions." Another interpretation might be arguing. I get this all the time. "What did I do?" Well, you are violating dress code, you smell like a brewery, and you just called the nicest kid in class a faggot in front of thirty people. Case closed.
The only thing that surprises me more than the sheer volume of whining here is my morbid fascination with it, and some LEO's patient participation. God bless America, BARF and all that it stands for...NApe
"..just asked a few quick clarifying questions." Another interpretation might be arguing. I get this all the time. "What did I do?" Well, you are violating dress code, you smell like a brewery, and you just called the nicest kid in class a faggot in front of thirty people. Case closed.
The only thing that surprises me more than the sheer volume of whining here is my morbid fascination with it, and some LEO's patient participation. God bless America, BARF and all that it stands for...NApe
saizai
New member
Questions such as:
"What time is official sunset?"
"Could I see that timetable?" [that he's holding in front of me but not so I can see it easily]
"Could I see that [point]?" [the mini-codebook he took out for reference]
"What time is it now?"
"What county are you a division of?" [multi-county, turns out, which makes figuring out jurisdiction & fines a little weird]
"What city's ordinance is 'MROSD ...'?" [it's not a city's, it's our own]
"Do you just wait here at closing in case people show up?" [they wait there when they see an empty car in the vista pt lot]
... aaaand I can't remember anything else really.
Pertinent, simple to answer, nothing directly challenging at all. Just clarification.
Plus some more casual conversational things - e.g. do you guys go through regular POST or something ranger specific; what sort of stops do y'all usually have.
Pretty innocuous IMO. *shrug*
nakedape
Well-known member
Thanks Sai, you proved my point. Since the fact is you were acting in good faith but still got written up, it's so much better to argue (I mean clarify) later. How many times to you have to hear "I remember every person who questions me when i write them and make sure to show up to court" from LEOs before you get it? Honestly, no bash, but I've been let off so many times by politely ANSWERING all questions and ADMITTING GUILT.
Now, this may run counter to a lot of what you may read here, but minor infractions (not moving violations) or parking tickets are just that; not worth pissing and moaning about. OTOH, when a sheriff asked me to implicate myself and I knew he didn't see/radar me, I muted and shrugged, "who...Me?" Nah, wasn't me. No ticket, but know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em.
"What time is it now?" I would have told you to look at your watch and "sign here please". I guess it's hard for you to see, but the tone of your questions is somewhat condescending. It's a cheap learning experience you had. That's all. if you need more perspective, read through some RIP threads:|..NApe
Now, this may run counter to a lot of what you may read here, but minor infractions (not moving violations) or parking tickets are just that; not worth pissing and moaning about. OTOH, when a sheriff asked me to implicate myself and I knew he didn't see/radar me, I muted and shrugged, "who...Me?" Nah, wasn't me. No ticket, but know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em.
"What time is it now?"
I would have told you to look at your watch and "sign here please". I guess it's hard for you to see, but the tone of your questions is somewhat condescending. It's a cheap learning experience you had. That's all. if you need more perspective, read through some RIP threads:|..NApe
Dove
productively obsessed
Thanks Sai, you proved my point. Since the fact is you were acting in good faith but still got written up, it's so much better to argue (I mean clarify) later. How many times to you have to hear "I remember every person who questions me when i write them and make sure to show up to court" from LEOs before you get it? Honestly, no bash, but I've been let off so many times by politely ANSWERING all questions and ADMITTING GUILT.
Now, this may run counter to a lot of what you may read here, but minor infractions (not moving violations) or parking tickets are just that; not worth pissing and moaning about. OTOH, when a sheriff asked me to implicate myself and I knew he didn't see/radar me, I muted and shrugged, "who...Me?" Nah, wasn't me. No ticket, but know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em.
"What time is it now?"
Best BARF post ever. You eloquently spoke everything I was thinking.
(Apparently I rep'd you before Mr. Ape, sorry I can't again.)
saizai
New member
nape - If I had a watch or cell on me (that wasn't dead), I wouldn't have asked about time.
As for condescending... I don't think that was the case. If anything it's saying that I'm the one who lacks knowledge, and would like to understand the situation. I wasn't asking him anything that I already knew as a test, if that's what you're thinking, and I didn't do it in a combative way at all. And I answered all his questions quickly & honestly.
(If you mean by RIP threads what I think you do...) I fully understand that officers have a certain amount of justified paranoia about their personal safety on the job. Plenty of people will start a fight, suddenly do something crazy, etc. I'm not one of 'em, and I try to make that fairly clear - and to be tolerant of the things they do to skew the odds (e.g. pointing big lights at me, separating groups, etc).
As for condescending... I don't think that was the case. If anything it's saying that I'm the one who lacks knowledge, and would like to understand the situation. I wasn't asking him anything that I already knew as a test, if that's what you're thinking, and I didn't do it in a combative way at all. And I answered all his questions quickly & honestly.
(If you mean by RIP threads what I think you do...) I fully understand that officers have a certain amount of justified paranoia about their personal safety on the job. Plenty of people will start a fight, suddenly do something crazy, etc. I'm not one of 'em, and I try to make that fairly clear - and to be tolerant of the things they do to skew the odds (e.g. pointing big lights at me, separating groups, etc).