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What will it take to convince you of climate change?

Smash Allen said:
mmm, yea okay

i would say it's better to not post and be thought of as a fool rather than post anyways and remove all doubt, but it's no longer applicable
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Don't be so hard on yourself. :dunno
 
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The correct title to this thread should have been:"What will it take to change your behavior and lifestyle given your awareness of climate change?"
 
The planet doesn't need saving, we do. Be honest about it. If we made the planet uninhabitable, within a short time the planet would erase any signs of our existence save a few momentos.

Every thing on earth came from it in some way and will return to it in some way. We could choke on air pollution and after humans are gone, in short order the air would be clean. We could sterilize the surface and shit would grow after we are gone.

For some reason, this idea that humans are the final and best ecological experiment is really a grandiose and arrogant perception.

We are one virus away from not being here. That does not mean do nothing (in 1..2..3) but really, the stuff that will do us in isn't what we're doing to the air, the water or the dirt. The increasing population of wanters even if the total population remains stable is unlikely to be sustainable by the finite resources available.

So what do we do? Shoot electric cars into space. And people actually think thats an accomplishment.
 
JakesKTM said:
The correct title to this thread should have been:"What will it take to change your behavior and lifestyle given your awareness of climate change?"
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Nope. If we all went hippy it wouldn't really make a difference. It would just slightly extend the time we'll be extracting shale oil until hydrocarbon fuel is no longer available. It would move the needle, sure. But probably not enough to really matter.

What we need is to overcome the incredibly well-funded propaganda campaign that has people actually believing there is a "scientific debate" about climate change. Once people understand that the only dissent comes from propagandists and the blind sheep they've fooled, then they can start to process the scope and severity of the problem.

This is an issue we engineered ourselves into, and we have to engineer our way out. It will take R&D and investment from the public and private sectors. It will take willingness of greedy politicians to end the graft and subsidy of the fossil fuel industry. We have most of the tech we need already. It just requires courage to stand up to industry to change the course we are on.
 
CoorsLight said:
Nope. If we all went hippy it wouldn't really make a difference. It would just slightly extend the time we'll be extracting shale oil until hydrocarbon fuel is no longer available. It would move the needle, sure. But probably not enough to really matter.

What we need is to overcome the incredibly well-funded propaganda campaign that has people actually believing there is a "scientific debate" about climate change. Once people understand that the only dissent comes from propagandists and the blind sheep they've fooled, then they can start to process the scope and severity of the problem.

This is an issue we engineered ourselves into, and we have to engineer our way out. It will take R&D and investment from the public and private sectors. It will take willingness of greedy politicians to end the graft and subsidy of the fossil fuel industry. We have most of the tech we need already. It just requires courage to stand up to industry to change the course we are on.
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Well said, sir.

I started this thread to see if it was even possible to change a denier's mind. It is not. I just wake it up every so often to see if mounting evidence will turn a mind or two around.
 
CoorsLight said:
Nope. If we all went hippy it wouldn't really make a difference. It would just slightly extend the time we'll be extracting shale oil until hydrocarbon fuel is no longer available. It would move the needle, sure. But probably not enough to really matter.

What we need is to overcome the incredibly well-funded propaganda campaign that has people actually believing there is a "scientific debate" about climate change. Once people understand that the only dissent comes from propagandists and the blind sheep they've fooled, then they can start to process the scope and severity of the problem.

This is an issue we engineered ourselves into, and we have to engineer our way out. It will take R&D and investment from the public and private sectors. It will take willingness of greedy politicians to end the graft and subsidy of the fossil fuel industry. We have most of the tech we need already. It just requires courage to stand up to industry to change the course we are on.
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It's fun to be smug about it and quote Deal DeGrasse Tyson on his statement that science doesn't really care whether you believe it or not, it just keeps on being provable.

But you're right, it does matter whether we believe it or not, because wholesale investment is the only way we're going to be able to control the damages done in the last century.
 
Gabe said:
Well said, sir.

I started this thread to see if it was even possible to change a denier's mind. It is not. I just wake it up every so often to see if mounting evidence will turn a mind or two around.
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It is possible. I was one myself. I am fortunate to be science literate and curious enough to think about the evidence.

It should be possible to change minds if there is an overwhelming amount of evidence. Our problem is that it's too easy to be adversarial. Especially when most deniers have made the refusal to consider science part of their identity. It's a tough problem because you are required to act as ambassador, teacher, and counselor all at once. It's very hard to disassemble the edifices of propaganda.

Here's an article about that:
How to Talk to a Science Denier without Arguing

Easier said than done.
 
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nbean16 said:
Continuously posting the temperature on a single given day in a specific place only hurts your argument and makes the idea of man made climate change seem well beyond your understanding. If there is a record low somewhere in the world does that mean the planet is cooling?
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This.:rofl

It really does undermine your arguments.:rofl

The problem with CC is that it's all done with computer models, that have had to have serious corrections in the last few years.
There is simply not enough objective data to measure CC. This should be measured in many decades, if not centuries.:wow

Don't get me started about data collection methods etc etc. Most of it is total bullshit, and can be easily manipulated.:thumbdown
 
mrmarklin said:
This.:rofl

It really does undermine your arguments.:rofl

The problem with CC is that it's all done with computer models, that have had to have serious corrections in the last few years.
There is simply not enough objective data to measure CC. This should be measured in many decades, if not centuries.:wow

Don't get me started about data collection methods etc etc. Most of it is total bullshit, and can be easily manipulated.:thumbdown
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The problem is that's NOT how it's all done. Models are a small part of the total picture. Most of the work is field and lab work.

What "data collection methods" are you referring to that are so problematic?
 
It's -9 degrees in Barrow, Alaska right now
 
CoorsLight said:
The problem is that's NOT how it's all done. Models are a small part of the total picture. Most of the work is field and lab work.

What "data collection methods" are you referring to that are so problematic?
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You know, the pesky ones that show climate change is real.
 
DTM74 said:
It's -9 degrees in Barrow, Alaska right now
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Average high temperature in Barrow in 2018 was 8 degrees F. Tracked YoY, that's a 18 degree rise from 2007, when the average high was 10 was -10 degrees F.

So, what was your point?
 
Smash Allen said:
mmm, yea okay

i would say it's better to not post and be thought of as a fool rather than post anyways and remove all doubt, but it's no longer applicable
Click to expand...

What I said was fact. But go on, continue believing that climate is so magical and Godlike that it can't be affected by anything man does. It's really quite cute.
 
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CoorsLight said:
Nope. If we all went hippy it wouldn't really make a difference. It would just slightly extend the time we'll be extracting shale oil until hydrocarbon fuel is no longer available. It would move the needle, sure. But probably not enough to really matter.

What we need is to overcome the incredibly well-funded propaganda campaign that has people actually believing there is a "scientific debate" about climate change. Once people understand that the only dissent comes from propagandists and the blind sheep they've fooled, then they can start to process the scope and severity of the problem.

This is an issue we engineered ourselves into, and we have to engineer our way out. It will take R&D and investment from the public and private sectors. It will take willingness of greedy politicians to end the graft and subsidy of the fossil fuel industry. We have most of the tech we need already. It just requires courage to stand up to industry to change the course we are on.
Click to expand...

It will take an oil crash, simply put. We are going all the way on this one.

Example" My neighbor pulls up in his F950 diesel and runs into the house leaving the truck running for nearly 20 minutes before he jumps in and punches the accelerator sending a big ass plume of smoke. No - we're going all the way.
 
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JakesKTM said:
It will take an oil crash, simply put. We are going all the way on this one.

Example" My neighbor pulls up in his F950 diesel and runs into the house leaving the truck running for nearly 20 minutes before he jumps in and punches the accelerator sending a big ass plume of smoke. No - we're going all the way.
Click to expand...

joke's on you - i'll just burn biodiesel after the dino is gone
 
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