AFM board meeting minutes

[Lazerus]

.... it's cheesy as hell to second guess and say it was the wrong one. Instead, why not put that energy to possibly finding a better way. ( Which I don't believe exists.)

I know it is, That's why I haven't taken the "hind sight is 20/20" approach and acted like I knew what the weather was going to do. And I've offered two possible better ways, those being:


1) If you announce that you are going to take one course of action that greatly increases the odds of racing, DON'T don't then change that course of action to one that greatly DECREASES the odds of racing several hours later when the weather is behaving inline with the info you made your original decision with.

2) If the number of willing participants is an important figure, get that vote out of the way in the morning.


I really don't feel that either of the above are difficult or unreasonable. Both are designed to allow the membership to make an informed decision as to whether or not to wait it out.

but the lack of respect for those with the best intentions is downright retarded.

I haven't seen anything disrespectful here, except maybe sidewayz -> berto...


And Siggy, mentioning you and Dave as Berto's friends was a joke, implying that you guys called it because your buddy would have fallen behind in points if we'd raced

 

[Jello_Biafra]

RANT OVER!

Oh good, since you're being fantastically hypocritical.

You do realize that board members are unpaid volunteers, yes? They took on the role mainly because they're a warm body that cares about the club. Nobody is there for personal gain and instead they end up spending their own time and money in the process. In telling them to do more you're simply asking another member to do what you're not willing to, as if their willingness to sit on the board is a signal that they're willing to invest even more time and money to record a meeting that nobody will watch. Why should they step up even further if you're not willing to step up at all? If it's such a simple task then perhaps someone that is not already burdened by being a board member needs to do it.

I do agree though, it would be an asset to the club if someone were to take the initiative to record and share the meetings with the rest of the club.

 

[afm199]

Oh good, since you're being fantastically hypocritical.

You do realize that board members are unpaid volunteers, yes? They took on the role mainly because they're a warm body that cares about the club. Nobody is there for personal gain and instead they end up spending their own time and money in the process. In telling them to do more you're simply asking another member to do what you're not willing to, as if their willingness to sit on the board is a signal that they're willing to invest even more time and money to record a meeting that nobody will watch. Why should they step up even further if you're not willing to step up at all? If it's such a simple task then perhaps someone that is not already burdened by being a board member needs to do it.

I do agree though, it would be an asset to the club if someone were to take the initiative to record and share the meetings with the rest of the club.

I know too many former board members who say the same thing: "Thankless job, gobs of angry and personal criticism, and no, never again."

 

[Mjollnir]

I don't know who Mjollnir is Rick. I DO know who Chris and Dave are. I believe the majority of the club knows who Chris and Dave are. I trust their decision making over an unknown quantity. That's not to say any of the statements from either are incorrect, I simply do not know how Mjollnir evaluates what is safe to ride and what is not.

Honestly a chimp with sign language skills could have determined whether there was any water on track or seeping from the cracks when I walked it. No one is buying the false argument that you have to have this lap time/safety record to know what track conditions are. The people you are going with weren't on the track after the last riders meeting, when they went out it was still wet and dangerous. I might not be fast but my safety record can stand with anyone, starting riding the track in '02, racing around '07 and never a crash (well, until last Infineon practice where a joker sat up on back straight moved left and took me down by my brake lever). The only gripe people have is that they were looking backwards in decision making rather than what the next 5 hours would bring (beautiful sunshine). Anything else is a distraction from whether it was a good call or not. It's ok that the wrong call was made, we've learned from it and it looks like changes will be made, but all this talk that it takes a seasoned AMA pro to tell the difference between dry track and rivers flowing is laughable.

 

[Mjollnir]

Saw Randolph bicycling on track when I went out, maybe he's fast enough for ya. He said "not bad" when I asked him what he thought.

 

[Dan Kyle]

but I also think they could have included the racers in the debate over the canellation (almost seems like a Group Think situation).

They did, You did.

The AFM members Elected a AFM President to make the call.
He hires a Race Director who is responsible to him.

You Cannot have a vote for every decision, the racers, The AFM Members put these people in charge to make decisions on the spot, using the best information they have at the time.

 

[Jello_Biafra]

Saw Randolph bicycling on track when I went out, maybe he's fast enough for ya. He said "not bad" when I asked him what he thought.

I saw Randolph too. He was at that second riders meeting and he was pretty animated in his appeals to have the races cancelled.

 

[Mjollnir]

I saw Randolph too. He was at that second riders meeting and he was pretty animated in his appeals to have the races cancelled.

Right, which makes it even more shocking that he thought the track was fine.

 

[Jello_Biafra]

And Dan you might want to watch it with the name calling, especially on an issue you know nothing about (I was on the track after the meeting and didnt see you there checking for water). We all saw EDR expose your intelectual frailty.

Awesome.

 

[#1 tuner]

Honestly a chimp with sign language skills could have determined whether there was any water on track or seeping from the cracks when I walked it. No one is buying the false argument that you have to have this lap time/safety record to know what track conditions are. The people you are going with weren't on the track after the last riders meeting, when they went out it was still wet and dangerous. I might not be fast but my safety record can stand with anyone, starting riding the track in '02, racing around '07 and never a crash (well, until last Infineon practice where a joker sat up on back straight moved left and took me down by my brake lever). The only gripe people have is that they were looking backwards in decision making rather than what the next 5 hours would bring (beautiful sunshine). Anything else is a distraction from whether it was a good call or not. It's ok that the wrong call was made, we've learned from it and it looks like changes will be made, but all this talk that it takes a seasoned AMA pro to tell the difference between dry track and rivers flowing is laughable.

Not to be rude to you but if you haven't crashed in that amount of time, you aint trying hard enough son. You sure in the hell haven't been competing for wins or championships then either. I could be wrong, highly unlikely though. Why do you keep insisting the track was dry when YOU walked it? Who cares about how dry the track was then, hadn't a decision to scrap the racing already been made? At which point in time does ENOUGH become ENOUGH? Get some signnatures or something & petition for a RULE CHANGE. The only wrong call here IMO is that people are still bitching about coulda,woulda raced. You seem to forget that people have other commitments other than racing,like JOBS,that needed to leave at a reasonable hour. You also are failing to factor in had racing commenced,and someone crashed,what kind of clean-up time might have consumed the available daylight/rainless period? The right call was made,if anything much later than it should have been.























For the record, I made it stop raining when I switched the exhaust out on our bike that we had no muffler for. Suck on that Z!

 

[CTS488]

Honestly a chimp with sign language skills could have determined whether there was any water on track or seeping from the cracks when I walked it. No one is buying the false argument that you have to have this lap time/safety record to know what track conditions are. The people you are going with weren't on the track after the last riders meeting, when they went out it was still wet and dangerous. I might not be fast but my safety record can stand with anyone, starting riding the track in '02, racing around '07 and never a crash (well, until last Infineon practice where a joker sat up on back straight moved left and took me down by my brake lever). The only gripe people have is that they were looking backwards in decision making rather than what the next 5 hours would bring (beautiful sunshine). Anything else is a distraction from whether it was a good call or not. It's ok that the wrong call was made, we've learned from it and it looks like changes will be made, but all this talk that it takes a seasoned AMA pro to tell the difference between dry track and rivers flowing is laughable.

What you fail to understand is that Barb had to commit to a decision. After hours of uncertainty she needed to give a yea or nay to the ambulances, the track and the membership to salvage whatever was left in the day in terms of either making it home at a decent hour or racing. The uncertainties in the track conditions and the weather led to her choice. I get that the plan that was described in the first riders meeting didn't go as described but you have to keep in mind that things change sometimes, nothing is ever perfect and no one is either. Sometimes we all need to be a little flexible, especially when it comes to these types of situations, we are not talking about something small here. Barb has to consider a lot of things, not only financially but more importantly the safety of all of US.....the membership. I was out a bunch of money in hotel rooms and travel so of course I'm not happy but it is what it is...at least I'm going home in one piece.

The final riders meeting happened within 10 minutes of our final inspection of the track....I don't believe you perception of time is accurate with when you checked it out.

Chimps.....When a mulpti time #1 plate holder, national racer with 20+ years of racing and riding experience, who has raced in Europe during a round of the world endurance championship at Le Mans in the rain for hours says that the track isn't good....guess what? I'm gonna go with him.

No offense but who are you? No one knows you, you have no track record of experience that the club knows of. Why would we all go off your opinion? I don't trust you or your thoughts on the track. This isn't meant to be a slight on you...just facts. I understand that you want to ride, we all did.

Many of the top guys in many classes came and voiced their satisfaction in our observation and choice. Randolph too voiced his concern during the meeting.

Rory...I know you're kidding around, but to clarify, I had a lot to gain by riding that day, having 2 of the top FP guys not there, and then a few FP guys that never got to practice when I did on fri would have been a great advantage, but I opted out because it isn't worth it. I would've be all about racing and making sure berto didn't get points because that pussy deserves to be behind for crying about his sprained finger. lol

 

[CTS488]

Not to be rude to you but if you haven't crashed in that amount of time, you aint trying hard enough son. You sure in the hell haven't been competing for wins or championships then either. I could be wrong, highly unlikely though. Why do you keep insisting the track was dry when YOU walked it? Who cares about how dry the track was then, hadn't a decision to scrap the racing already been made? At which point in time does ENOUGH become ENOUGH? Get some signnatures or something & petition for a RULE CHANGE. The only wrong call here IMO is that people are still bitching about coulda,woulda raced. You seem to forget that people have other commitments other than racing,like JOBS,that needed to leave at a reasonable hour. You also are failing to factor in had racing commenced,and someone crashed,what kind of clean-up time might have consumed the available daylight/rainless period? The right call was made,if anything much later than it should have been.

























For the record, I made it stop raining when I switched the exhaust out on our bike that we had no muffler for. Suck on that Z!

+1 Very well said

 

[KazMan]

I think since we are also reflecting, at the time 1100 hours - 1200 hours, there was a call for a cell to move in around 1500 hours. This would potentially given us 3 hours of racing. Am I the only one who heard, if we vote to start the racing, we would get in as many races as we can.

Of course Mother Nature being the lady she has been all year, kept that cell away, so that on all the conspiracy theorists could submit that the track remained dry for the rest of the day.

Don't get me wrong, I would have raced if there was racing, but I for one was relieved and thankful that we called the day. Of course that's easy for me to say yes, I was slated for the early races. Races 8 thru 12, well too bad for you folks...lol. I woulda got my points in

Seriously though, come on folks. A decision was made. Give people credit for making the hard decision and standing up in front of the mob to do it. The Club is now offering a solution to this call. Can't we please create a positive energy force about something! We can do it around individuals or two who crash, why can't we do it when the entire club and all of it's vendors, workers, supporters, sponsors, etc. crash?

I mean if one or two of us crashed this last weekend, how many people unprompted by the crashee, would be posting "Dude/ette, I got spare parts, you want me to come over and help ya put your bike back together?"

Let's freaking pull together AFM. WE crashed, let's put this baby back on track like the family we keep bragging we are here on BARF!

 

[Holeshot]

BTW, we voted to rebadge the trophies from the event to who could win the internet on BARF. Protests must be made to the race director within 30 minutes of official results!

 

[Holeshot]

Oh good, since you're being fantastically hypocritical.

Kyle, Jesus is not an AFM member. Hence the reason his particular concerns may go unadressed.

I'm not sure I want to keep giving this club my $$$.

This is the result of "politics", and since 2003 I've felt like some kind of privileged outsider.

Sonny, that's completely voluntary you know. I think we're good enough friends that you could call me with any info you wanted, needed, or wished to have presented. It's just a phone call, or text.

 

[Jello_Biafra]

I hope the trophees are phalic in shape, that would be fitting for both events.

 

[Mjollnir]

The final riders meeting happened within 10 minutes of our final inspection of the track....I don't believe you perception of time is accurate with when you checked it out.

Chimps.....When a mulpti time #1 plate holder, national racer with 20+ years of racing and riding experience, who has raced in Europe during a round of the world endurance championship at Le Mans in the rain for hours says that the track isn't good....guess what? I'm gonna go with him.

No offense but who are you? No one knows you, you have no track record of experience that the club knows of. Why would we all go off your opinion? I don't trust you or your thoughts on the track. This isn't meant to be a slight on you...just facts. I understand that you want to ride, we all did.

Your probably right that it was later than 5 minutes but my main point was that they should have been looking forward not back (clear radar, it never rained again) and will stop repeating it since some people just refuse to acknowledge it. Who do I have to be to look at a dry track and know it's dry? It's kinda funny that everytime someone bucks the establishment position they are attacked as slow, the ultimate sin apparently. I would think their intelligence might be more determinant of the validity of their observations but what do I know I haven't won motorcycle championships with my meager budget and attitude that Im just out there to have fun and improve. It was the wrong decision no matter who agreed with it. To disagree with a simple observation means you don't know what the conditions were, you just assume that someone slower than you is not qualified to open his eyes and see if there's water or not, it ain't rocket science. I didn't have any agenda when I went out there, only after I saw it was dry and was like WTF.

Reread what I said, did not call you guys chimps, just said that motorycle skills aren't required to see if it's dry, just a pair of eyeballs. I've always thought you fast guys were pimps, no reason for you guys to get all defensive and elitist on us mere peasants .

Maybe we need to legalize the brothels in California, people are getting a bit uptight and angry over a simple disagreement here.

Lastly, I apologize to Dan Kyle, I misread your post, thinking you called me a chimp, guess he would have been correct after I started to tear him a new one for no reason.

 

[dsapsis]

trophies; phallic.

Everyone please feel free to call me chimp, monkey, or any other nice member of our faunal brethren.

That's all I got to add to this mess

 

[Jello_Biafra]

Yeah, I wasn't gonna Google that one at work to double check

 

[Lazerus]

Not to be rude to you but if you haven't crashed in that amount of time, you aint trying hard enough son. You sure in the hell haven't been competing for wins or championships then either. I could be wrong, highly unlikely though.

Wanna see my trophies?