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5 dead in fatal motorcycle crash

Wait, so it's not the one that made the pass and apparently caused the accident, but the one from the vehicle that actually collided with the bikes?
 
Rel said:
Update: other driver was located and arrested for suspicion of DUI by the CHP.
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Rel brah, you know better than that. He was held until they could determine if he had been drinking or not because they smelled alcohol on him.

You think that has anything to do with his being a Mexican national and they don't want to risk him leaving?

Betcha a half pound of good coffee that he is not "arrested" for anything.
 
I'm reposting this from General because some of you may not read the other thread...

According to AP:
A man who struck a pack of motorcyclists, causing a crash that killed five people and injured six, has been arrested on suspicion of driving under the influence.

California Highway Patrol Officer Dean Goudie said Sunday that Carlos Ramirez Bobadilla, 36, of Mexicali, Mexico was arrested because his breath smelled of alcohol. The results of a blood-alcohol test are still pending.​
I suspect this is a contrivance by CHP to keep the driver in the US until an investigation has conclusively determined responsibility for the crash.

Several years ago in a Southern California crash that took the life of a motor cop, they "smelled marijuana" on the Mexican driver (a LEGAL immigrant). A blood test absolved the driver of that suspicion, but he was convicted of misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter.

In a similar case in Central California, another LEGAL Mexican immigrant (who was on probation at the time) killed a motorcyclist, and CHP again "smelled marijuana". Again, a blood test cleared the driver of the DUI charge but he was convicted of misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter.

I don't trust CHP's sense of smell. Let's wait until there's a definitive test result.
 
Sane_Man said:
He'll out himself to someone in a couple of days. I can't believe anyone could keep this to themselves once they hear about it on the news.
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As the prophet Malachi says:
Lo, the day is coming, blazing like an oven, when all the evildoers will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire, leaving them neither root nor branch, says the Lord of hosts. But for you who fear my name, there will arise the sun of justice with its healing rays.
 
Sad

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...rch-for-driver-who-caused-fatal-accident.html


"Goudie said at least 12 members of the motorcycle club met around 9 a.m. for breakfast in Lakeside before hitting the road. About 12:50 p.m. they were riding east on California 98 near Ocotillo, about 80 miles from San Diego, when the Honda pulled up behind the motorcyclists and passed them in the oncoming lane.

At the same time, a white Dodge Avenger heading toward the motorcyclists swerved to avoid the oncoming Honda. Goudie said the driver lost control and crashed into six motorcyclists, killing four of them. Authorities say the Honda driver caused the crash and continuing heading east."
 
They're saying now that the guy driving the car that lost control was DUI. By how much is not yet known but apparently alcohol is in play now.
 
RIP riders and condolonces to families.:rip

10:1 the Honda driver escaped over the border.
 
DataDan said:
He was arrested on suspicion of DUI because "his breath smelled of alcohol". Test results are not reported.

I suspect this is a contrivance by CHP to keep the driver in the US until an investigation has conclusively determined responsibility for the crash.

Several years ago in a Southern California crash that took the life of a motor cop, they "smelled marijuana" on the Mexican driver (and LEGAL immigrant). A blood test absolved the driver of that suspicion, but he was convicted of misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter.

In a similar case in Central California, another LEGAL Mexican immigrant (who was on probation at the time) killed a motorcyclist, and CHP again "smelled marijuana". Again, a blood test cleared the driver of that and he was convicted of misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter.

I don't trust CHP's sense of smell (BARFers excepted, of course ;)). Let's wait until there's a definitive test result.
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Or perhaps your tinfoil hat is past its expiration date...
 
I'm sorry if my bringing the cruiser-formation issue up offends anybody. Believe me I take no satisfaction from this. But there it is.

In order for a single vehicle to hit multiple motorcycles in one fell swoop, the bikes have to be close together. It's rare that you ever hear of a car crossing the DY and hitting half a dozen other cars, because they simply don't fit that close together.

The articles refer to it as a 'pack' of motorcycles, and the car hitting it like a bowling ball. Bowling balls usually happen to hit pins that sit in tightly knit little crowds. The car took one bike full in the front teeth, while another hit the passenger door. That's consistent with a car sliding diagonally into two bikes riding side by side. I would be honestly surprised if they were not riding in 2-column formation.

If they'd been spread out single file with a safe following distance between them for 65mph, odds are good that when this accident happened, the car spinning out of control might have hit one-- MAYBE two bikes, but definitely not a whole pile of them. 4 dead, 5 injured-- that's 5 bikes involved, minimum. Nearly half of the entire group of 12. Some of the injuries may be from guys losing control trying to avoid and/or piling into the wreck in front of them after the fact, but again that probably wouldn't happen with a safe following distance.

I really doubt this particular batch-- sounds like they're one of the Santa-on-a-cruiser fundraising type clubs-- was doing anything aggressive like blocking traffic intentionally, and they may very well have been going the speed limit. Since the car in question drove off and is clearly an asshole, I'd say it's quite likely that he attempted to pass in an unsafe, asshat manner in the first place-- somewhere without enough sight ahead, and without bothering to try to indicate his intentions politely to the bikes ahead of him to give them a chance to accommodate him.

Asshole driver + bikes too close together + bad driver = horrible tragedy.


Ray said:
So here's my question:

You're driving down a two lane road - light (but present) traffic in both directions. - Dirt shoulder your right, but there's a serious lip 2-6 inches and the shoulder is narrow.

You see oncoming traffic, and then suddenly a vehicle pulls out, into your lane, in order to make a pass. The gap is rapidly closing and you realize there is going to be a head on collision with you and the passing vehicle. Do you:

A. Yank the steering wheel into the oncoming lane of traffic even though there are other vehicles there, and if the car in front of you ever gets his shit together, that's the lane he's probably going to go back to.

B. Pull the car hard to the right shoulder. Suspension be damned!

C. Jump on the brakes as hard as humanly possible and attempt to keep the car moving as straight as possible and hope the oncoming car makes it back into his own lane before you collide.
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C + B, in that order. I come from hilly mountainous lands, where often the shoulder of the highway involves massive ditches, solid rock walls, big fat trees, or full-on cliffs with deep water at the bottom. If there's a dirt/sand shoulder with no huge smashing obstacles or bottomless pits in it, I'll brake hard on the pavement first as much as I can, and then ditch it offroad. Gratefully. Um... that is, that's my response if I was driving a car. On a bike? I have much less confidence in my ability to control the thing over a sharp lip into dirt, or my ability to survive losing it. I might swerve into oncoming then, and pray that my small size and maneuverability will let me aim for a gap that doesn't contain vehicles.
 
MysterYvil said:
Or perhaps your tinfoil hat is past its expiration date...
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No. I've kept it up to date with all the latest mods. ;)

I'm not making this shit up. You can read about one of the cases here. As the article says, a CHP officer insisted that the driver was under the influence of marijuana, but "three subsequent blood tests have shown no illegal drugs." Though the first test results were known four days after the crash, they kept the guy locked up on the DUI manslaughter charge for a month.

A judge eventually threw out the felony vehicular manslaughter charge, and the defendant was convicted of misdemeanor vehicular manslaughter.

News about the other case (also 2003) is available for a fee from the paper that covered the story. PM me for references.
 
Gnarly Cranium said:
If they'd been spread out single file with a safe following distance between them for 65mph, odds are good that when this accident happened, the car spinning out of control might have hit one-- MAYBE two bikes, but definitely not a whole pile of them. 4 dead, 5 injured-- that's 5 bikes involved, minimum..
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If you're going 65 and the car going the other way is going 65 you have a closing speed of 130 miles an hour which is 190 feet per second - not a lot of time to react no matter how good a rider you are.
 
Definitely-- for a rider in the immediate path of destruction, there may be next to no chance to evade. But if the next rider is 4 seconds behind him, that rider gets about 4 more seconds than the first to do something to avoid the spinning pile of rubble that's just formed in front of him. It might still be headed his way, but not at the speed it was before. And the rider behind him would have 8 seconds, and so on-- the 6th rider in the group of a dozen would get there over half a minute after the impact.
 
Gnarly Cranium said:
Definitely-- for a rider in the immediate path of destruction, there may be next to no chance to evade. But if the next rider is 4 seconds behind him, that rider gets about 4 more seconds than the first to do something to avoid the spinning pile of rubble that's just formed in front of him. It might still be headed his way, but not at the speed it was before. And the rider behind him would have 8 seconds, and so on-- the 6th rider in the group of a dozen would get there over half a minute after the impact.
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Except they weren't running into a stationary object.
 
RIP riders. My deepest condolences to their families.

Just another reminder about the dangers of riding, and group riding in particular. I don't really like group riding because of the additional hazards created when trying to keep the group together--e.g. running red lights, pulling over and then back into traffic, and of course impatient drivers pulling stupid stunts.
 
xlcr said:
Except they weren't running into a stationary object.
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Okay, I'm rusty, but I'll take a swing at this.

The car is 3500lbs, the bikes with a pair of riders what... let's say 1200lbs each, and they're approaching each other at approx 100ft/s or closing rate of 200ft/s. Car hits bike #1 dead on, and loses 1/3rd of its roadway-forward momentum to that impact alone, plus some extra for skidding tires, change in direction, etc. Now we have say the bike and the car minus bike riders, 4300lbs traveling at erm... roughly half the speed it was before, say 35mph or something.

At a 4-second following distance of 400 feet away, rider #2 hits the brakes after an average 3/4s reaction time, using up 100ft while the car takes up another 40ft. If he's good, he can stop in what... about 200ft. Meanwhile the car is coming at him at about 30mph but decelerating. I could drag out my physics notes and hack at this more accurately... but I am going to guess here that they would both reach a full stop at almost the same time, depending on the rider's braking skills and the trajectory of the car. And meanwhile, rider #3 is still about 260ft away-- assuming he didn't already come to a full stop!

How, under those conditions, could the car possibly take out FIVE bikes at once? Not gonna happen, unless all the riders are staring at their GPS the whole time. If this was a bus with a driver passed out with his foot on the gas and a guardrail keeping him on the pavement, that's a whooooole other ballgame.

NOW, say we have a formation of 12 bikes riding in 2 columns of 6, in close formation with a 1s following distance.

The car hits the 2 leaders simultaneously. One sticks to the front bumper, the other bounces off the passenger door. The car + 1 bike continue at about 15mph. The 2nd pair of bikes hits the brakes after using up 75 of their 100ft following distance in 3/4s, while the car uses another 16. They're on the brakes for maybe ten whole feet, before slamming right into the car at almost full speed, bringing the rolling ball of metal to a complete halt-- unless they manage to swerve aside, which is tough since they're right next to each other limiting their escape routes. Let's assume all of the bikes managed to see what was happening at the same time and hit the brakes at the same moment. The 3rd row has ALMOST enough room to stop, if they can. Say one manages it or swerves, and one fails, and there's our minimum 5 casualty bikes, while the last 7 stop or swerve safely.



Following distance. Crucial stuff.
 
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