95 mpg

[JesasaurusRex]

Tell me this, are you gonna drive 2500 to 3000 miles in one shot?

what, you don't do meth?

 

[afmotorsports]

what, you don't do meth?

pffft... obviously you never raced bikes, we did ~2,700 miles from the Suzuki Cup Finals (Road Atlanta, Georgia) to San Jose in 42 hours straights, only taking quick breaks for gas, bathrooms and fast food. No meth, that shit is for pussies.

 

[louemc]

Tell me this, are you gonna drive 2500 to 3000 miles in one shot?

I have (and never used Meth or any stay awake assists)..Across the states in one trip and from the lower 48, to Alaska, up the Alcan...But..my question was when was the battery charging getting done?

Did the stops get done at RV parks with outlets? If so where was the sleeping, happening? In the car?

I've yet to see a Motel where Ya string out an extension cord in the parking lot, and the management allows charging cars.

 

[JesasaurusRex]

pffft... obviously you never raced bikes, we did ~2,700 miles from the Suzuki Cup Finals (Road Atlanta, Georgia) to San Jose in 42 hours straights, only taking quick breaks for gas, bathrooms and fast food. No meth, that shit is for pussies.

not as bad ass when you have more than 1 person driving

 

[Johndicezx9]

I have (and never used Meth or any stay awake assists)..Across the states in one trip and from the lower 48, to Alaska, up the Alcan...But..my question was when was the battery charging getting done?

Did the stops get done at RV parks with outlets? If so where was the sleeping, happening? In the car?

I've yet to see a Motel where Ya string out an extension cord in the parking lot, and the management allows charging cars.

Charging stations are popping up in lots of places, and yeah, I suppose some hotels/ motels will allow it, for a fee, I suppose, as demand grows.

 

[Reli]

not as bad ass when you have more than 1 person driving

owned

 

[Asphaultnaut]

Tell me this, are you gonna drive 2500 to 3000 miles in one shot?

before the yearly pay cuts I was doing SJ to Olympia, WA runs every other month. One shot, stopping for fuel, bathroom and food only. Then returning 48 hours later.

during my custody fight, once a month. same conditions. All weather, regardless of season. Many of us still do long drives.

Still couldn't charge a Volt here at the apartment, so it's still worse than a 20 year old Metro or new iQ. It'll never pay for itself without a few hundred thousand dollars investment into property. Factor a Bay Area home with garage into the cost matrix, whether rental or purchased LOL

 

[MrIncredible]

The model T will never replace the horse. It gets stuck, is unreliable, there are hardly any filling stations vs the current plethora of farms with hay, and the roads aren't made with them in mind. I can't imagine why anyone would ever consider one of these new fangled contraptions over a good reliable horse.


It's not for everyone. Neither is anything else.

 

[Johndicezx9]

Yes, yes, yes, lots of extremes presented, so then by all means, don 't be an early adopter... But with each technological breakthrough a little bit of that argument fades. In 30 years, when the DMV is questioning our ability to drive vehicles, I suspect there will be improvements way past what we can imagine, either in the technology itself, or the support systems for the technology.

Cars like the Volt, a hybrid with extended range on battery, and the Tesla, an all electric with almost 300 miles of range, we're unimaginable 20 years ago because the technology wasn't there, but now they are options. For whatever reason, whether or not they're making a statement, people are buying them, and they are making them work for their particular situation. Try to remember, I'm not the guy who said "you are what you drive"!

Personally, I fall into the drives less than 30 miles a work-day category, if I picked up a Volt, I'd be sure to add some StaBil to the gas, I have a feeling it would take while to get through a tank, but that would be the goal.

 

[Johndicezx9]

The model T will never replace the horse. It gets stuck, is unreliable, there are hardly any filling stations vs the current plethora of farms with hay, and the roads aren't made with them in mind. I can't imagine why anyone would ever consider one of these new fangled contraptions over a good reliable horse.


It's not for everyone. Neither is anything else.

Hey, when Fulton launched the first steamboat dockworkers and sailors burned it, they thought it would put them out of work.

 

[TheRobSJ]

Personally, I fall into the drives less than 30 miles a work-day category, if I picked up a Volt, I'd be sure to add some StaBil to the gas, I have a feeling it would take while to get through a tank, but that would be the goal.

The Volt is programmed to start the engine every once in awhile, even if there's plenty of EV range. Gets the oil in the engine circulated, gets the fuel pump to move some gas around, all that good stuff.

 

[Holeshot]

If you are buying the car for the perks, bells and whistles, then I have no argument with you. Everyone can buy what they wish to buy.

Over the life of the car though, when you compare the compact car (Volt), to a compact gasoline only car, you are not saving money. If you are buying the car so you can save on gas, it is a wash over the life of the car. You break even when it is ready to send to the junk yard.

Let's see your proof numbers. I did mine against a same class car and the class leader: the Accord. The Volt is about $11,800 cheaper over 5 years, or $10,200 if you buy a 72 month, 100K mile warranty. You need to use apples to apples for a fair comparison.

 

[Killroy1999]

If you are buying the car for the perks, bells and whistles, then I have no argument with you. Everyone can buy what they wish to buy.

Over the life of the car though, when you compare the compact car (Volt), to a compact gasoline only car, you are not saving money. If you are buying the car so you can save on gas, it is a wash over the life of the car. You break even when it is ready to send to the junk yard.

As its been said early on in this thread, People said the same thing about the Prius - that it would never save money- but now the Prius is the most popular car in California.

People buy based on image and the American, clean, EV, renewable energy, less oil, tech image that the Volt is very good. The car is rated very good by consumer reports also. Buy a used one for $25,000 and cost wise it will not the socks off anything comparable.

 

[wazzuFreddo]

No way Volt matches up with an Accord, Volts are much smaller cars.

 

[TheRobSJ]

If you are buying the car for the perks, bells and whistles, then I have no argument with you. Everyone can buy what they wish to buy.

Over the life of the car though, when you compare the compact car (Volt), to a compact gasoline only car, you are not saving money. If you are buying the car so you can save on gas, it is a wash over the life of the car. You break even when it is ready to send to the junk yard.

I'm not about the saving money on gas part of it. I know damn well that I'd have to keep the car longer than I usually keep a car in order for the cost of the fancy EV powertrain to balance out. It's the same argument when people drop an extra $7-8k for a diesel over the biggest gasoline engine in a pickup. Yeah the diesel gets better mileage, but you'd have to drive that truck over 150k miles in order for that diesel paid for itself.

Again, the things that stand out for me on the Volt over spending half as much on just a regular new Civic, Sentra, Cruze, or whatever is the fact that I can go months at a time without having to stop at a gas station. And the carpool lane sticker. That's something that no conventional compact car offers. Can't really put a price on those two conveniences. Well I suppose there is a price. $35k minus the cost of a conventional car. So maybe $15-20k for not having to stop for gas when all I wanna do is just get to work or just get home and blowing by all the stop and go folks while I'm in the HOV lane.

To me, it's worth it.

 

[louemc]

I'm not about the saving money on gas part of it. I know damn well that I'd have to keep the car longer than I usually keep a car in order for the cost of the fancy EV powertrain to balance out. It's the same argument when people drop an extra $7-8k for a diesel over the biggest gasoline engine in a pickup. Yeah the diesel gets better mileage, but you'd have to drive that truck over 150k miles in order for that diesel paid for itself.

Again, the things that stand out for me on the Volt over spending half as much on just a regular new Civic, Sentra, Cruze, or whatever is the fact that I can go months at a time without having to stop at a gas station. And the carpool lane sticker. That's something that no conventional compact car offers. Can't really put a price on those two conveniences. Well I suppose there is a price. $35k minus the cost of a conventional car. So maybe $15-20k for not having to stop for gas when all I wanna do is just get to work or just get home and blowing by all the stop and go folks while I'm in the HOV lane.

To me, it's worth it.

That's the only thing that makes a valid point.
I can't handle the traffic in the greater Bay Area, sitting in a vehicle as a single occupant.
I could do it on a motorcycle, splitting lanes in the tie-ups.

If I had to be in a vehicle..and could, because of it being one that could use the HOV lane...That is pure Gold.

 

[JesasaurusRex]

I'm not about the saving money on gas part of it. I know damn well that I'd have to keep the car longer than I usually keep a car in order for the cost of the fancy EV powertrain to balance out. It's the same argument when people drop an extra $7-8k for a diesel over the biggest gasoline engine in a pickup. Yeah the diesel gets better mileage, but you'd have to drive that truck over 150k miles in order for that diesel paid for itself.

Again, the things that stand out for me on the Volt over spending half as much on just a regular new Civic, Sentra, Cruze, or whatever is the fact that I can go months at a time without having to stop at a gas station. And the carpool lane sticker. That's something that no conventional compact car offers. Can't really put a price on those two conveniences. Well I suppose there is a price. $35k minus the cost of a conventional car. So maybe $15-20k for not having to stop for gas when all I wanna do is just get to work or just get home and blowing by all the stop and go folks while I'm in the HOV lane.

To me, it's worth it.

205k, hoping to get another 200k out of her arty

 

[mercurial]

I showed my numbers earlier in this thread.

Like I said if you like the car and its features, then there is nothing wrong with that. The good gas mileage is a nice perk. However if you try to justify the car because of cost savings it is a fail. You break even over the life of the car if you compare it to a good inexpensive car that gets 30+ MPG.

I don't think Berto ever said he was going to own the car for it's entire lifespan. He merely compared TCO for the first several years based on opex (gas + monthly payments) and estimated depreciation, and it's clear the volt performs relatively well here compared to the Accord. There is no concept of "breaking even" because he didn't outlay cash for the purchase, so the only relevant metric is cash flow.

Your scenario does work more in favor of the econobox, but of course neglects the intangible benefits (the volt is just going to be a nicer car, period, and also gets you in the HOV lanes for now.) Also you don't account for residual vehicle value. If Berto's hypothesis proves out (reduced maintenance requirements for Volt b/c of limited ICE usage) his car might still have another ten years on it and be priced accordingly, whereas the econobox ICE car will be worth close to nothing. That's a gamble since there is no historical data here, but it's worth considering.

 

[louemc]

I don't think Berto ever said he was going to own the car for it's entire lifespan. He merely compared TCO for the first several years based on opex (gas + monthly payments) and estimated depreciation, and it's clear the volt performs relatively well here compared to the Accord. There is no concept of "breaking even" because he didn't outlay cash for the purchase, so the only relevant metric is cash flow.

Your scenario does work more in favor of the econobox, but of course neglects the intangible benefits (the volt is just going to be a nicer car, period, and also gets you in the HOV lanes for now.) Also you don't account for residual vehicle value. If Berto's hypothesis proves out (reduced maintenance requirements for Volt b/c of limited ICE usage) his car might still have another ten years on it and be priced accordingly, whereas the econobox ICE car will be worth close to nothing. That's a gamble since there is no historical data here, but it's worth considering.

When a Hybrid has depreciated for 10 years..and needs that battery pack replaced...that also puts it in the,
"it's worth close to nothing" category.

 

[GAJ]

As someone else has inferred, early adopters always pay through the nose and often to the benefit, eventually, of us unwashed masses who get new tech at a reasonable price.

So thank you early adopters.