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BARF Militia

Appleseed shoot sounds a little wacky, but very fun.

Anyone else going to the Chabot Tactical Pistol match on Saturday morning? Should be fun, and if you have holster training, they walk newbies through it...
 
uhmeebuh said:
I must be missing something because the grip and my flinch seem unrelated to me... I've been working on the flinch (which is just me anticipating the shot) vs my accuracy going down due to an improper grip/trigger squeeze.

What's the difference? Or is it just semantics?
Click to expand...

Apparently the difference is grip hold.

Last Saturday, when only John, Ed and I were left, John had me demonstrate my grip on my Buck Mark. Then he adjusted it. When I tried it out yesterday at the range, the adjustment was HUGE in terms of shooting and recoil.

I may not have all the words right, but this is what John taught me:

The firing hand does not grip the handgun to hold it steady. The firing hand is used only to point the handgun straight at the target and then to fire the trigger (with the pad of the index finger). The other hand does the actual gripping.

Get it?

Spoke by phone with him today and he said, Yes, everybody thinks they have to have a deathhold grip with their firing hand on the handgun. And it's not so.
 
The firing hand does not grip the handgun to hold it steady. The firing hand is used only to point the handgun straight at the target and then to fire the trigger (with the pad of the index finger). The other hand does the actual gripping.
Click to expand...
Shit, then how do we manage to shoot one-handed?
 
Well, I just had a fun chat with the Martinez PD Sgt. who handles his dept.'s firearms training. He said, Get the basics in grip down and you'll become a marksman. The only problem is flinching!

And shoot! I can't remember what he said in preventing flinching, we had such a fun chat. Lemme calm down some and maybe I'll remember. :)
 
masameet said:
And shoot! I can't remember what he said in preventing flinching, we had such a fun chat. Lemme calm down some and maybe I'll remember. :)
Click to expand...

I've found that a steady, gradual pull on the trigger helps quite a bit. If you're clicking it and anticipating the shot and the recoil, you'll flinch. If you've got a good grip and are ready, and have little idea when the gun will go off, that's when you have the best results.
 
He was still out there so I went and asked him again.

Divided attention, Sgt. S said, causes flinching.

How to prevent flinching?

When you stretch out your arm and point your handgun, say, Press. Before you finish pronouncing the final "s," you'll have pulled the trigger. And your aim will be true.

:)

Hope this technique works for you, Brandon! I'm going to try it too.
 
I've been using the grip with the left/pull the trigger with the right and it helps quite a bit. I've been working a few guys on these points and I'm much more accurate. I still flinch but not as much as I had before. I just think I need more consistent practice which has been hard to balance lately...

Thanks for the tips - I'll give them a go this weekend!
 
Look thru the shot. You already know there is going to be a recoil and there is nothing you can do about it. Push right and pull left works for me, a righty. By the time you feel the recoil, the bullet has already reached the target. Shoot alot and you'll get used to it. Just get used to not anticipating the recoil and it will do wonders for your accuracy.

Al
 
melodybliss said:
From #14:
.22 TNT HP (.223 Remington)
Weight: 55 gr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.233
Sectional Density: 0.157
COAL Tested 2.235
Speer Part No: 1032

Oh, BTW, Hi. :) First post here. Being an Endowment member of the NRA, this thread piqued my interest. I saw this question and since no one else spoke up yet, thought this would be a good introduction. :)

My name is Melody and it's been 8+ years since I last rode. My husband recently got into riding and since it's been so long (and I never did get my endorsement when I took the MSF the first time), I'm re-taking the MSF in September.

Needless to say from this posting (and NRA membership) I'm also into firearms and have been for a long time. In fact, got my husband into shooting though he's not quite the advocate that I am. In my personal list of arms are an S&W 910 (9mm), Les Baer TRS (.45 ACP), Remington 870 shotgun, AR-15 (CMMG lower & upper) with freefloating barrel and JP Enterprises single stage trigger (3.5 #), and a custom .308 built on a Remmy 700 short action w/ Mike Rock 5R barrel and Manners T2 stock. The .308 is a .25 MOA rifle. :) Shoots far better than I do.

Training wise I've trained with Louis Awerbuck of Yavapai Firearms Academy and also of Mike Miller of Tactical Intervention Specialists (precision rifle).

Anyway, hi :)

Mel
Click to expand...

Welcome to the madness that is BARF. Just remember this is a sarcastic bunch, so a thick skin is a must, but it's all in good fun. :thumbup
 
masameet said:
The firing hand does not grip the handgun to hold it steady. The firing hand is used only to point the handgun straight at the target and then to fire the trigger (with the pad of the index finger). The other hand does the actual gripping.
Click to expand...


A good way to reinforce that is to "flap" your trigger hand left/right while it's on the grip. I do that sometimes on the line. It's like doing the "chicken wings" on the bike to make sure your elbows aren't locked and you aren't stiffening up.




Brandon,

Do you do dry fire exercises at all?
 
Nemo Brinker said:
Anyone else going to the Chabot Tactical Pistol match on Saturday morning? Should be fun, and if you have holster training, they walk newbies through it...
Click to expand...

I'll be there! And it looks like my long wait is over, and my offset drop holster will have (finally!) arrived just in time to use for it. (Of course, this means it won't have arrived in time for me to do more than cursory dry practice with it, but, bah, who needs practice? :p)
 
I got my new magazines today! :banana

The GLOCK 31 rounders work great, I was bouncing a soda can all over the berm at about 20 feet. All I need now is an Uplula!

But two of the Hi-Power mags lock the slide with one round left in the magazine. :cry
 
melodybliss said:
From #14:
.22 TNT HP (.223 Remington)
Weight: 55 gr
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.233
Sectional Density: 0.157
COAL Tested 2.235
Speer Part No: 1032


Mel
Click to expand...

Hey Mel:

Welcome to the board, and thanks for the reply. I seated the bullets to 2.245, after comparing the ogive to a 55 gr. Winchester I have on hand.

I called CCI Speer earlier in the week because I did not receive a reply here, who told me the length I needed. I'd loaded these up with 25 gr and 25.2 gr of N140 and shot them through my 20" AR and my 700SPS. This load still needs some fine-tuning, I think it's loaded a bit light. Where do you shoot?
 
Well MikeT I just got 2 shotguns so your lagging man:twofinger
Who wants to tell me about the Winchester 1897 and the other is a side by side stamped Hunter Firearms co. Fulton, New York. I'm also supposed to have a lever action .30-30 but it's been hard to go through my Gramps stuff
 
Capitol Hill aides to test M4 replacement weapons
July 11, 2008
Military.com|by Christian Lowe

In a move that could ruffle the feathers of an Army command that views the Colt Defense-built M4 as the best carbine in the world, a select group of top senate staffers is gathering today to look at what could be the future of the military's standard assault rifle.

About 30 legislative aides have signed up to attend a July 11 demonstration at Marine Corps Base Quantico, just outside Washington, D.C., that will feature weapons from various manufacturers vying to end the reign of the M16 and M4 as the U.S. military's most fielded personal weapon.

The range day is intended to help familiarize key lawmakers with possible alternatives to the M16 and M4 once the exclusive contract with Colt Defense of West Hartford, Conn., ends in the summer of 2009, a senior senate aide told Military.com.

"When you re-compete the M4 it shouldn't just be for the same thing we've been building for the last 20 to 30 years," said the senior senate staffer who requested anonymity because the issue is so sensitive with the Army.

Over the past year the Army has taken fire from M4 critics who say there are better options available to troops, weapons that require less intensive maintenance and fire more lethal rounds. While the Army -- which is responsible for procuring small arms for all the services -- continues to stand by the M4 and M16, a small group of tenacious senators, including Oklahoma Republican James Coburn, have pressed the issue, forcing the service to subject the M4 to rigorous environmental tests and pushing for side-by-side competitions with several M4 alternatives.

"There's no urgent need to improve the M4, it's clearly working better than the M16," the senior senate aide said. "Our concern is that, urgent or not, we really ought to be improving it on par with technological improvements [and] not be wedded to an older weapon just because that's the way we've always been doing it."

While the aide declined to list all the companies participating in the demo, congressional and industry sources say the shoot will feature the standard 5.56mm M4 carbine, the FNH USA-build Mk-17 -- which fires a 7.62mm round -- and a modified "M4-style" rifle that fires a new 6.8mm special purpose cartridge round, among others.

The 6.8mm SPC round was born of a 6-month program launched by the interagency Technical Support Working Group which looked into how an M4 or M16 could be easily modified to fire a round that had better ballistic characteristics than the current arsenal when fired from a short barrel.

According to the TSWG, the so-called "modified upper receiver group" that accommodates the 6.8mm round "can be installed on [government-issued] M4 carbine lower receivers by operators in the field quickly and without tools for an immediate, considerable increase in projectile weight, surface area, and on-target terminal performance."

"The 6.8mm MURG offers improved combat capability and user survivability over comparable 5.56mm platforms," a TSWG statement said.

A consistent criticism of the M4 has been the 5.56 round's perceived lack of stopping power. A 2006 Center for Naval Analyses report conducted for the Army showed 30 percent of Soldiers surveyed wanted a rifle with a more deadly round.

"Across weapons, Soldiers have requested weapons and ammunition with more stopping power/lethality," the report said.

And one special operations Soldier who spoke to Military.com couldn't agree more.

"I know that when I'm shooting at someone I want to be confident that when I hit him, he's going to go down," the Special Forces operator said during a recent interview. "That's why I like the AK and its 7.62 round. It'll drop whatever you're aiming at."

The Army brushes off such criticism, saying lethality is closely tied to marksmanship. If you hit a target in the right place, you'll stop him, Army leaders argue.

The point of the July 11 test shoot is to allow manufacturers to showcase their M4 alternatives before an audience that's becoming more influential on small arms procurement decisions. The senate group tried to hold a similar demo last year, but the Army abruptly pulled out when news reports of the event leaked out, senate sources said.

Participants will have the opportunity to observe the effects of different caliber rounds in ballistic jelly, be shown how to fire each weapon and, of course, there will be some hands-on time as well.

Colorado Democratic Sen. Ken Salazar is heavily involved in the M4 alternative push and wants a competitive process that rewards the kind of innovation that leads to a host of choices when the M4 is re-bid in June of next year.

"Senator Salazar's concern is that the process itself could stifle industry innovation, it can result in lower weapons reliability and it can increase costs," said Salazar spokesman, Matt Lee-Ashley.

"He's going to work through the Army and the Armed Services Committee to make sure that when [the M4] is re-competed next June the process is open, that it's based on performance-based requirements and that it encourages industry innovation."
 
^
M14-EBR.jpg


problem solved....:teeth
 
Hey guys, I'm trying to figure out how to use a red dot scope.
Can somebody explain it to me or point in the right direction?:)

Thanks.:thumbup
 
Put batteries in, point the dot at the target. Squeeze trigger.:nerd
 
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