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Draggin jeans: Anyone fall down in them.???

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but the problem is absolutes. They just don't hold up in the real world. For instance, I happen to know a bee keeper that does not always wear a bee suit. Why? Because it is not always necessary. It depends on what she is doing with the hives. It's the same thing with riding. If I am hitting the highway, I am in full leather, etc. But I live and work in SF and either suiting up or wearing a textile suit for every occasion is not reasonable. If I am just zipping off to the cafe that is 10 minutes away, it's going to be in leather jacket with a back protector, gloves, boots and blue jeans. Sure I could be the weird guy that sips his cappuccino in full leathers (trust me I lived that life in my 20s) but is that really the right tool for job all the time?

No one said Kevlar jeans are as good as full armor. But they are definitely better than just denim and have uses for certain conditions.

You do know that most moto accidents happen within 10 miles of home, right? Because that's where you relax. That's how I ended up stubbing my knee into a Bott's dot at 25 mph, which did more injury than any of the 75-100 mph getoffs I have had wearing full gear.
 
I agree with a lot of what you are saying but the problem is absolutes. They just don't hold up in the real world. For instance, I happen to know a bee keeper that does not always wear a bee suit. Why? Because it is not always necessary. It depends on what she is doing with the hives. It's the same thing with riding. If I am hitting the highway, I am in full leather, etc. But I live and work in SF and either suiting up or wearing a textile suit for every occasion is not reasonable. If I am just zipping off to the cafe that is 10 minutes away, it's going to be in leather jacket with a back protector, gloves, boots and blue jeans. Sure I could be the weird guy that sips his cappuccino in full leathers (trust me I lived that life in my 20s) but is that really the right tool for job all the time?

No one said Kevlar jeans are as good as full armor. But they are definitely better than just denim and have uses for certain conditions.

I agree completely. Not saying that people shouldn't wear whatever they like to wear. Respect to anyone who experiences the world on two wheels. From racers to stunters, it's all a matter of choice.

I'm simply expressing my opinion for the people in the background who will read this thread and be influenced by what we say - and my opinion is ATGATT. And I totally see the reasoning behind the differing opinions.

Do what you feel is safe and I will do what I feel is safe. But I will also express my opinion in what I think is safe haha. If I could, I would get all the airbag stuff, because that IS the safest. But I cannot afford a 3000$ suit, with 500$ airbag replacements each time I low side :p if I could, I would.

If I get hurt, I can't ride, and I'd rather die than be handicapped to the point of being unable to ride. No joke.
 
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Actually, that is not true. I work for a Fortune 500 Company and I wear blue jeans almost every day. In fact, many of the other big companies around my office do as well: Google, Amazon, Fitbit, etc. Not all of us can wear blue jeans to the office but in the Bay Area many of us can. Besides, many people don't work in offices anyway.

I completely agree on the armor point. No one is going to wear blue jeans with armor because you would just wear proper motorcycle pants if that were the case. Should anyone wear Kevlar blue jeans on the highway? Nope, that pushes the limits of their ability to even prevent road rash (the only thing they provide protection against). But for around town they have a function. We can't be dressed like gladiators for every coffee shop stop, errand, etc.

You're stretching the context way past the breaking point. If you want to look "nice", for example in a business meeting or impress someone with your sense of fashion and style, none of the motorcycle safe jeans are going to cut it. The ones that have enough kevlar in them to actually protect against a slide get pretty stiff and tend to look awkward. If they contain armor, you've gotta either take them off to get them out of the inner armor, or there's gonna be a pretty visible knee zipper where it comes out, or hilariously bulgy knees.

Yes, many bay area offices are totally fine with people wearing anything from board shorts on up, but at that point, you can get away with wearing whatever, so the choice of clothes becomes moot.

Also, freeway rides aren't really the place where you crash - the vast majority of crashes take place in intersections, which are conveniently missing on most freeways. The idea that you need more gear for freeway riding is missing the point, the chances of a crash on the freeway are significantly lower. From the hurt report:
Intersections are the most likely place for the motorcycle accident, with the other vehicle violating the motorcycle right-of-way, and often violating traffic controls.

On the speed of crashes:
The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was 21.5 mph, and the one-in-a-thousand crash speed is approximately 86 mph.

Freeways are higher severity, but have significantly lower risk of an accident taking place, and the increase in severity is arguable, given the low speed of most crashes.

Also worth noting:
Half of the injuries to the somatic regions were to the ankle-foot, lower leg, knee, and thigh-upper leg.

So basically, your legs take a beating in any accident, as your knees are oftentimes the first thing to hit the ground from the initial fall off the bike (which usually does a large chunk of the damage, ref. helmet design), and you're quite likely to get your foot jammed under the bike.

The fact is you're stepping into the gladiator ring every time you go out, if you gear up or not. Your risk is higher around town, and lower on the freeway, so making the assumption that you're not in a high risk situation cause you're just "running errands" is completely in opposition to the facts.

One last point here, the goal of any safety gear is to protect as effectively as possible against the reasonable majority of accidents - that means your street gear should be designed around roughly ~25mph crashes, focused on the best possible defense of low speed impacts. Those wearing traditional race leathers on the street are also missing the point to some degree, as you're highly unlikely to slide for the sort of distance that would cause wear through on a set of leathers, most leather is race inspired, very slim fit, and as a result has hard armor with minimal impact reduction qualities, as you're highly unlikely to impact things on the track. Noteable exception: Helimot, which contains no hard armor, and is significantly bulkier/heavier than most normal race suits.

On the flip side, textile gear with massive amounts of coverage thanks to giant soft armor pockets is pretty much ideal for street crashes, where you're highly likely to impact road debris, botts dots, or cars at a reasonable low, survivable speed. Textiles can actually be a superior choice around town, especially if you reduce overall risk of injury by wearing them when you wouldn't otherwise wear gear due to social reasons.
 
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Finally, a subject we can all agree on. :party

I'm partially in the ATGATT crowd. Meaning, I have a full set of race leathers, but rarely wear it on the street any more. I believe afm199 and Z3n have it right, the risk on the street is mostly from hitting hard obstacles and the legs take the biggest beating. So for the most part I wear FF helmet, a heavily armored textile jacket and Bohn-Armor under kevlar jeans when riding on the street. I save the suit for track daze.

But to be honest, I've been more fucked up by a low speed crash on my bicycle, off-road and on.
 
Finally, a subject we can all agree on. :party

:laughing

I also have the Bohn under armor but am guilty of hardly using it to be honest, even though it's a very good product and seems that it would be a big plus under my Draggin' Jeans.
 
Finally, a subject we can all agree on. :party

I'm partially in the ATGATT crowd. Meaning, I have a full set of race leathers, but rarely wear it on the street any more. I believe afm199 and Z3n have it right, the risk on the street is mostly from hitting hard obstacles and the legs take the biggest beating. So for the most part I wear FF helmet, a heavily armored textile jacket and Bohn-Armor under kevlar jeans when riding on the street. I save the suit for track daze.

But to be honest, I've been more fucked up by a low speed crash on my bicycle, off-road and on.

And you wear your aerostich and FF helmet on your bicycle, right? Because a bike can do 25-30 mph downhill, so why should you not wear the same amount of gear?
 
And you wear your aerostich and FF helmet on your bicycle, right? Because a bike can do 25-30 mph downhill, so why should you not wear the same amount of gear?

Fukkin A! :thumbup

Weird, isn't it? But you're right, as a bicyclist I feel like I have my ass hangin' out. Even though I do wear a motocross jersey (mediocre elbow protection) and long pants that have a foot or so of abrasion resistance.
 
And you wear your aerostich and FF helmet on your bicycle, right? Because a bike can do 25-30 mph downhill, so why should you not wear the same amount of gear?

25-30 downhill? Gear that motha, I was passing 60 mph traffic on my bicycle down a mountain grade that drops into Susanville, on 395, as I headed south from Portland Oregon, to Guatemala.
 
Fukkin A! :thumbup

Weird, isn't it? But you're right, as a bicyclist I feel like I have my ass hangin' out. Even though I do wear a motocross jersey (mediocre elbow protection) and long pants that have a foot or so of abrasion resistance.

This is where ATGATT falls down and gets roadrash on its smug behind. At some point EVERYBODY sacrifices some protection for comfort and convenience. As somebody alluded to, where does ATGATT stop? What does the "All" mean? Do I have to wear chest, thigh and abdomen armor? Leatt and HitAir? ABS, TC and a Spot transmitter?
 
This is where ATGATT falls down and gets roadrash on its smug behind. At some point EVERYBODY sacrifices some protection for comfort and convenience. As somebody alluded to, where does ATGATT stop? What does the "All" mean? Do I have to wear chest, thigh and abdomen armor? Leatt and HitAir? ABS, TC and a Spot transmitter?

Don't forget a cup! :laughing
 
hahah oh how i love gear threads on BARF.
True dat, I'm thinking this guy wouldn't last five minutes on BARF! :laughing
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This is where ATGATT falls down and gets roadrash on its smug behind. At some point EVERYBODY sacrifices some protection for comfort and convenience. As somebody alluded to, where does ATGATT stop? What does the "All" mean? Do I have to wear chest, thigh and abdomen armor? Leatt and HitAir? ABS, TC and a Spot transmitter?

It stops when the cost of mitigating the risk outweighs the risk itself, just like it does for non-ATGATT people. For those without fiscal means or the uneducated, those costs probably hit at a much lower level then they do if you've got some cash to throw around or a willful denial of the realities of road crashes.

And you wear your aerostich and FF helmet on your bicycle, right? Because a bike can do 25-30 mph downhill, so why should you not wear the same amount of gear?

FF helmet, absolutely - when downhill biking full gear is pretty much a given as you're not doing much pedaling.

There's very little gear out there that vents well enough to not to cause enough serious discomfort for road bike use (ie, dropping total comfortable bicycling time by 25% or more) - hopefully someday soon someone will come out with some stuff that actually protects and doesn't kill your ability to actually ride the bicycle.
 
Do what you feel is safe and I will do what I feel is safe. But I will also express my opinion in what I think is safe haha. If I could, I would get all the airbag stuff, because that IS the safest. But I cannot afford a 3000$ suit, with 500$ airbag replacements each time I low side :p if I could, I would.

If I get hurt, I can't ride, and I'd rather die than be handicapped to the point of being unable to ride. No joke.

You need to check out HitAir www.safermoto.com The vests cost $400 - $520, the refill CO2 canisters are $22. Costs less than one day in the hospital or an ER visit.
 
You need to check out HitAir www.safermoto.com The vests cost $400 - $520, the refill CO2 canisters are $22. Costs less than one day in the hospital or an ER visit.

Thanks for letting me know. Spinal injuries are among one of my crashing fears. Maybe this will help. I'll probably end up getting one. Much appreciated :thumbup
 
You do know that most moto accidents happen within 10 miles of home, right? Because that's where you relax. That's how I ended up stubbing my knee into a Bott's dot at 25 mph, which did more injury than any of the 75-100 mph getoffs I have had wearing full gear.

Yes, I am aware but I am also aware that is not always practical. On the other hand, I try not to relax because that is something I can control. My jeans held up fine during my last low speed crash (my collarbone not so much) but I also realize I was probably lucky.

On a side note, I have been looking around at over-pants with full side zippers and armor and I amazed at what a limited selection there is on the market right now. I guess the Adventure crowd and stunters dominate the textile pant market and they don't want easy on and off options.:thumbdown
 
It's because side zip pants are not the best from a design standpoint - you want a single, one piece garment that can't ride up, with the zippers and seams safely on the inside of the legs. The outer part of your leg is basically guaranteed to hit the ground at some point in a crash, and you don't want seams or zippers there if you can avoid it.

The thing that Aerostitch got right more than anything else is the zipper design. Once you use one, all other gear seems terribly inconvenient. Olympia makes a similar design for cheaper, but quality isn't as high, and IIRC, it's not waterproof.
 
Maybe true but you do know that Aerostitch does make a pair with full side zips? AD1 Motorcycle Pants. I do see your point but it is still a step up from jeans.
 
Maybe true but you do know that Aerostitch does make a pair with full side zips? AD1 Motorcycle Pants. I do see your point but it is still a step up from jeans.


Everything is a step up, from jeans.
Sure there are a few pants at the beach that are worse than jeans...But...

Moot point, when you see how woven fabric explodes, when the top of the weave is cut when abrasion takes it off....And you have a hole there now.
 
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If you must wear jeans, definitely get the ones with extra kevlar and like said already strap on knee protection under or over.

The rider that I had to watch take his last breath on the road up at Berryessa was wearing almost all motorcycle gear (leather jacket, low race boots, knee pads strapped on, full helmet and gloves) EXCEPT he had regular jeans on.They we quite thin and not sure exactly how he impacted the van that decided to make a quick turn across the road in front of him and his buddy, but when we showed up to the scene minutes later, he was bleeding out of a huge gaping wound on his upper thigh. Jeans had already been split open and tourniquet applied and pressure being applied on the wound. He most likely died from internal bleeding or injuries but I am sure the excess bleeding from the external wound was not helping matters.

Had a girlfriend do a wheelie course in regular jeans (dumb!!) and she popped down, bike went down off kilter, she slid as the bike slid out from under her..we called her "hamburger buns"..her butt cheek looked like raw meat AND she had to ride home like that! The rash on her leg where the jeans split was nasty too!

So jeans may seem convenient when you are just doing jaunts around town..but not terribly "convenient" when you are picking gravel from butt cheeks. Overpants that you can slip off and strap to your bike would be safer.

Noone ever thinks they will crash just doing jaunts around town or commuting but as my dad always told me "Dress for the fall"!!

:thumbup
 
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