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Ev trucks - 2022+

I think the Rivian looks pretty nice. IMO, it's more truck than a lot of brodozers, which look like more like they belong in a row of farm equipment or something.

The worst part about all these EVs (trucks, cars, motorcycles) is the lack of any DIY options for repair. They are super simple designs, yet they are virtually impossible to repair by the owner. So yeah, these EVs are fun toys for sure but I can't take them seriously until owners or third parties are able to diagnose, repair, and modify them.
 
Diagnose and repair what? When the system is simple, there’s far less to go wrong. No owner will be diagnosing a bad O2 sensor or IACV on an EV. For more serious drivetrain issues, I doubt there are many people that take a brand new car in-warranty to someone other than the dealer.

The non-dealer repair options will increase when there are actually cars to repair. Fords targets for EVs produced is massive, and that will create the jobs. When people actually own these for ~10yrs, they’ll break down. That’s plenty of time for those repair options to exist.
 
Zuzzo has it right. The "there is no o2 sensor so you don't have to worry about that" isn't a real thing.
 
That wasn't my entire point.

Got any widespread examples of drivetrain issues on a brand new car that are repaired by the owner or a 3rd party shop?
 
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mrzuzzo said:
I think the Rivian looks pretty nice. IMO, it's more truck than a lot of brodozers, which look like more like they belong in a row of farm equipment or something.

The worst part about all these EVs (trucks, cars, motorcycles) is the lack of any DIY options for repair. They are super simple designs, yet they are virtually impossible to repair by the owner. So yeah, these EVs are fun toys for sure but I can't take them seriously until owners or third parties are able to diagnose, repair, and modify them.
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Most modern cars are not very user serviceable unless the user is an expert and has access to specialty software and hardware. It's a right to repair issue. Definitely a problem. Not a problem that is unique to EVs.

There is a small but growing aftermarket community around EVs though. Right now it seems like a fair amount is focused on conversion kits and the like to turn old ICE cars into EVs, (usually with pretty poor range, tbh). As more EVs come out the aftermarket and repair community will grow. Honestly I think that the potential is greater because battery placement can be more flexible, and the electric motors are a lot smaller.
 
stangmx13 said:
Diagnose and repair what? When the system is simple, there’s far less to go wrong. No owner will be diagnosing a bad O2 sensor or IACV on an EV. For more serious drivetrain issues, I doubt there are many people that take a brand new car in-warranty to someone other than the dealer.
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What are you talking about? My Tesla is the most unreliable new car that I've owned.

I just had two sensors in the door handles go bad the other month. The car has had a bunch of random things go wrong like suspension, wheel bearings, headlights, etc etc

There are plenty of things that can and will go wrong. I've been driving EVs for 7 years now. Once you actually start putting miles on them, you either depend on the stealership to service it, have to MacGyver some fixes, or the thing turns into e-waste.

stangmx13 said:
Got any widespread examples of drivetrain issues on a brand new car that are repaired by the owner or a 3rd party shop?
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Teslas (esp. Model S and X) have had plenty of widespread drivetrain issues. The service centers are horrible. I'm lucky if my car comes back from service less broken than it was when I brought it in.

ScarySpikes said:
Most modern cars are not very user serviceable unless the user is an expert and has access to specialty software and hardware.
Click to expand...

What constitutes an expert? Do you have any examples of this? Personally, I find most modern ICE cars quite user-serviceable. A lot of the software/cables can be purchased or downloaded. Working on these cars isn't all that complicated. You could even buy a totaled Lambo and put it back on the road assuming you have decent technical knowledge and a parts budget.
 
You guys think the lightbar is a good design? It's screams look at me, to me.

It's the feeling I get when others install them currently.

Rivian is 1 giant bar with 2 ovals in front, it look like some new space age mars rover
 
mrzuzzo said:
What are you talking about? My Tesla is the most unreliable new car that I've owned.

I just had two sensors in the door handles go bad the other month. The car has had a bunch of random things go wrong like suspension, wheel bearings, headlights, etc etc

There are plenty of things that can and will go wrong. I've been driving EVs for 7 years now. Once you actually start putting miles on them, you either depend on the stealership to service it, have to MacGyver some fixes, or the thing turns into e-waste.
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+100. Same thing here: been in PEV's for 10 years now. When shit goes wrong, it's off the dealer. Indy's can't do much as they don't have the experience/ OEM diagnosis info. Most want to stay away from EV's.
 
mrzuzzo said:
What are you talking about? My Tesla is the most unreliable new car that I've owned.

I just had two sensors in the door handles go bad the other month. The car has had a bunch of random things go wrong like suspension, wheel bearings, headlights, etc etc

There are plenty of things that can and will go wrong. I've been driving EVs for 7 years now. Once you actually start putting miles on them, you either depend on the stealership to service it, have to MacGyver some fixes, or the thing turns into e-waste.



Teslas (esp. Model S and X) have had plenty of widespread drivetrain issues. The service centers are horrible. I'm lucky if my car comes back from service less broken than it was when I brought it in.



What constitutes an expert? Do you have any examples of this? Personally, I find most modern ICE cars quite user-serviceable. A lot of the software/cables can be purchased or downloaded. Working on these cars isn't all that complicated. You could even buy a totaled Lambo and put it back on the road assuming you have decent technical knowledge and a parts budget.
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Sounds like my Zero. Lots of warrenty work. Even the battery and the POS charger that is just off the shelf. They even replaced under warrenty, all of my plastics because they consistently overfilled the brake fluid and that would drip on the plastics and kill the paint.

When I was studying to be an engineer my engineering nightmare projects were door handles and turn signals. So, when I found out that Tesla had designed the most complicated car door handle ever - it presents itself and even opens the door, then I really cringed.
 
GM and Ford are frequently telling shareholders that they are going to be #1 EVs, but those plans seem be ignoring their competition.

Example: This week when Ford announced earnings, they said that Ford planned on ramping to 2 Million EVs by 2026. Tesla may be at that rate next year.

Ford reported a Q1 $3.1 Billion loss and the main reason for the loss is their investment in Rivian.
 
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....and all of them are @ the feet of China who controls 80% of global raw material refining.
 
Something I haven't seen, E-Semi's.
News story last nite that I can't find.

A factory in Coolage Az. has produced running trucks to sell, not vaporware.
Backstory of failed loans, and other issues, are coming off the line, stated range of 350 miles
 
stangmx13 said:
That wasn't my entire point.

Got any widespread examples of drivetrain issues on a brand new car that are repaired by the owner or a 3rd party shop?
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I don't understand this criteria of "brand new". Any brand new car has a warranty. Their first car was sold in 2008 and their warranty is 4 years. That leave a lot of cars out of warranty. There are dudes with youtube channels repairing them that have tried to bring light to the issue. Tesla's service doesn't sound very good and they do their best to keep service in-house. And I don't know what "widespread" means. It's enough of a problem to...be a problem, and it's only going to become a bigger problem until something changes.
 
Tesla is special because they produce relative garbage, but don't want the majority to know that, so they've broken right-to-repair laws to keep their vehicles in house. It will be a different story for Ford and the other established automakers. Remains to be seen for the other upstarts. I just changed the rear brakes on my 2018 Audi SQ5. It required a special electronic device to access the brake module and retract the parking brake. No car is anywhere near as diy-serviceable as they were a decade ago. No car a decade ago is as simple as my 1950 Ford sedan. Everyone equates EV repairs to their experience with Tesla, because they're the only ones old enough to be needing repair out of warranty. The fact that you can't get basic information on changing wear items common to every vehicle is a Tesla-specific issue, it's not necessarily going to carry to "EVs" in general. It will be interesting to see how forthcoming the other upstarts are with information and repair options, and what that will do to Tesla's practices. Probably nothing, thanks to King Musk.
 
And that's from the guy that's all about freedom and stuff.
 
kingmoochr said:
Tesla is special because they produce relative garbage, but don't want the majority to know that, so they've broken right-to-repair laws to keep their vehicles in house. It will be a different story for Ford and the other established automakers. Remains to be seen for the other upstarts. I just changed the rear brakes on my 2018 Audi SQ5. It required a special electronic device to access the brake module and retract the parking brake. No car is anywhere near as diy-serviceable as they were a decade ago. No car a decade ago is as simple as my 1950 Ford sedan. Everyone equates EV repairs to their experience with Tesla, because they're the only ones old enough to be needing repair out of warranty. The fact that you can't get basic information on changing wear items common to every vehicle is a Tesla-specific issue, it's not necessarily going to carry to "EVs" in general. It will be interesting to see how forthcoming the other upstarts are with information and repair options, and what that will do to Tesla's practices. Probably nothing, thanks to King Musk.
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The Euro cars all require some software/devices now to service BUT they are obtainable as are spare parts and instructions on how to fix. Yes obviously it takes a slightly different skillset but it's not impossible to fix.

Take any EV. Tesla, Zero, Energica, whatever. The same story across the board. It's like buying an ICE with the hood welded shut.

For my door handle issue, I'm basically forced to take the car to the service center. I have no other alternatives, it's not fixable nor can I buy the part myself and install because it needs to be paired to the car, which is something only a service center can do.

For the prices Tesla is charging now, it's absolutely not worth it. I'm rooting for the other manufacturers to step their game up. My fear is that they are looking at what Tesla is doing, and basically copying that model.

Of course, I'm hoping Ford realizes that truck owners want to be able to work on their trucks... we shall see.
 
CDONA said:
Something I haven't seen, E-Semi's.
News story last nite that I can't find.

A factory in Coolage Az. has produced running trucks to sell, not vaporware.
Backstory of failed loans, and other issues, are coming off the line, stated range of 350 miles
Click to expand...

Nikola Motors had a non-functional hydrogen fuel cell (still a electric vehicle with a hybrid battery), but they turned out to be a serious case of fraud.

I failed a job interview with Wrightspeed - plug-in hybrid trucks. The were mom and pop sized circa 2014. I think they were going for the kit model. Take a existing truck and convert it to hybrid for the operational savings. Ian Wright is a founder of Tesla - perhaps earlier than Elon who really drew the line around himself to be a founder. Ian's take is that even thought the ICE is complex with so many moving parts they are relatively cheap to make since they are so old and all the cost has been squeezed out of them. Electric drive is very simple, but new, so anything new get a cost premium. Fast forward today and we can see that Tesla has changed that with there margins.

Tesla Semi program has been typically delayed so that the company can focus on expand current models. That truck has been delivering cars internally from time to time. There is a "Mega-charger" that makes it happen like the Tesla Super charger. There is promise there. Delayed like every other Tesla model. :laughing
 
Hold your horses everyone, another auto maker is thinking about getting into the EV truck game:

vw-id-buzz-pickup-truck-1651149484.jpg


VW Chief designer tweeted this out. For me, this joins the Canoo egg truck thing at the top of the 'EV truck concepts I'd actually be interesting in owning" list.
 
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