If you are interested in an EV

[Lonster]

The dozen chargers at our remote top of the mountain exit are always busy and never full. The market had to build a restroom to accommodate them. They tell me it is a pleasant stop to stretch the legs and appreciate the local beauty. When I asked the clerk at the market what they are buying, she said “Oh, Smart water, so much Smart water!” lol and sure enough there is a huge display of that right at the front door. The future is here already, like it or not, and it has fast acceleration. Haven’t they added fake engine rumble/noise pollution and fake exhaust into the cockpit for all the sticks in the mud yet?

Us 'sticks in the mud' aren't looking for "fake engine rumble/noise pollution and fake exhaust into the cockpit". That's the whole point (that you obviously missed).

 

[Starpower]

Being an old fart, I need to take a break and get out of the cage for a stretch and walk every couple of hours at most. We simply plan charging around a meal or stretch break. Most charging stations have ammenities nearby. My 260 mi. range can't be done w/o the body demanded break. It really has been a non-issue. I can get 100 miles added in 5 min. or from 20-80% in about 20 mins. Fun fact - about 3 months ago the U.S. reached more public charging nozzles then there are gas ones, not counting home chargers that are far more. 95% of my charging is done at home at no cost. I have 2 years of free charging at super fast Electrify America chargers. Agreed the roar of a V8 is intoxicating, but so is the dazzling excelleration of 0-60 times as low as 1.9 sec. My Ioniq 6 is 4.1 sec. and is not a bore by far. The worlds fastest cars are all EV.

 

[Lonster]

That 'fun fact' is a little bit misleading. It's a 'ratio' comparison.
Meaning that EV vehicles have a better RATIO of charging ports compared to ICE vehicles.
Apparently there are about 1.5 million fuel nozzles, but only approx. 150,000 charge nozzles in the US.
EV's currently only account for about 3 million vehicles, which is about 1% of US vehicles on the road. In contrast, there are about 265.7 million ICE vehicles and 288.5 total vehicles (ICE, EV, Diesel, other).

 

[DonTom]

I mean, where does all the electricity come from? The vast majority comes frm fossil fuels.

In CA? Are you kidding? This info is a couple of years old; it is even much cleaner today:

 

[DonTom]

and really aren’t that “green”. I

 

[DonTom]

That 'fun fact' is a little bit misleading. It's a 'ratio' comparison.
Meaning that EV vehicles have a better RATIO of charging ports compared to ICE vehicles.
Apparently there are about 1.5 million fuel nozzles, but only approx. 150,000 charge nozzles in the US.
EV's currently only account for about 3 million vehicles, which is about 1% of US vehicles on the road. In contrast, there are about 265.7 million ICE vehicles and 288.5 total vehicles (ICE, EV, Diesel, other).

You cannot compare EV charge stations to gas stations when 90% or so charge only at home or work.

For an example, my 2018 Tesla Model 3, purchased new in 2018. I have had the need to charge it on the road TWO times in those 8 years.

Most people in the USA drive around 40 miles per day. No need for a charge station on the road for MOST EV drivers of cars by FAR, except for long overnight trips which are somewhat rare by car.

But EV motorcycles have less range and need charge stations more often than the cars.

Other differences, EV charge stations close to home are useless to most, unlike gas stations.

There are exceptions of course, such as those who live in SF and must park three blocks away from there they live.

And that is why there are more than a thousand EV charge stations in San Francisco. Not many can charge at home in SF, the big exception.

-Don- Redcrest, CA (in my polluting ICE motorhome, but with my Zero DS while RV parked)

 

[berth]

You cannot compare EV charge stations to gas stations when 90% or so charge only at home or work.

Really?

Most EV owners have charging at home now? In CA? The charging stations near me seem to be quite busy. Went out with a friend at lunch the other day in his Tesla, and went to the nearby station. 10 slot I would think, all full, we had to wait 15m or so to get in. He actually has a home charger, but charges at stations more than not.

 

[GAJ]

The two people I know with EVs both charge at home.

 

[DonTom]

The charging stations near me seem to be quite busy.

That can be, if your area is packed with people from hundreds of miles away. For an example, the two times I charged my Tesla on the road--both were overnight trips to Silicon Valley and the chargers there were very busy. But I doubt if any of the other Teslas in that area are from that area, just like in my case.

BTW, I also own a Chevy Bolt. I only charged it on the road one time--just to make sure it works! I have NEVER had the need to charge it on the road.

However, it is the norm for me to need a charge every trip with my electric motorcycles. I often take those on longer trips and they do not have as much range on the freeways as do EV cars, making charge stops more required.

See here, but add around 10% for those who only charge at work. Some people never charge at home when they can charge at work.


-Don- Redcrest, CA --Ave of the Giants

 

[DonTom]

but charges at stations more than not.

Why? Because he wants to pay three times as much as a home charge?

-Don- Redcrest, CA

 

[Reli]

Maybe they never had the sense to buy a real charger, which means a full charge would take days

 

[DonTom]

Maybe they never had the sense to buy a real charger, which means a full charge would take days

Yeah, very possible if they can only charge with level one at home.

However, I was using level two at home the first day I had an EV that can do level two. I had an adapter for my 240 VAC clothes drier to charge my Tesla at a level two rate. I used a 7.2 KW granny cable.

But I now have Tesla Wall Connectors at each of my houses and can now charge at 12 KW, the max a 2018 Tesla M3 can do.

Level one (120 VAC) is 1.4KW max. regardless if charging a Zero or a Tesla.

-Don- Redcrest, CA

 

[DonTom]

buy a real charger,

The "real charger" is inside the EV.

But AC charge stations are often incorrectly called "chargers" but all they really are is a slightly more complicated AC outlet, not a "real charger" at all.

A DCFC is a real charger. A real charger MUST be a DC output! Cannot charge a battery with AC!

Plugshare calls all the AC charge stations as "chargers". Even a home AC 120 VAC outlet is a "charger" on Plugshare, but that is NOT technically correct.

-Don- Redcrest, CA

 

[ST Guy]

In CA? Are you kidding? This info is a couple of years old; it is even much cleaner today:

View attachment 579258

So….52 percent of California’s electricity comes from dirty sources.

And an additional 25 percent comes from sources that aren’t available 24/7.

And charging from your own solar panels can only happen during peak daylight hours.

 

[DonTom]

So….52 percent of California’s electricity comes from dirty sources.

I guess it depends on what you call "dirty". What us humans do is filthy in endless ways. But some things are less destructive than others and that is where EVs take the cake for being clean--including charging.

For an example, burning natural gas results in fewer emissions of nearly all types of air pollutants compared to coal or petroleum.

And charging from your own solar panels can only happen during peak daylight hours.

Not exactly. I charge my Tesla Powerwall when the demand is less, and when sunny. I use it in the early evening when the demand is great and little or no sun.

If you want to make a good argument against EVs, do not compare to ICE vehicles unless you want to only talk about how they are built and ignore the much bigger picture.

-Don- Redcrest, CA

 

[littlebeast]

So….52 percent of California’s electricity comes from dirty sources.

And an additional 25 percent comes from sources that aren’t available 24/7.

And charging from your own solar panels can only happen during peak daylight hours.

we have a lot of ‘off the grid’ peeps up here. they have no issue running all of their needs off of solar, and their battery banks. at least that’s what they say. got no cause to doubt it (they run all of their power needs just fine).

 

[DonTom]

Another thing I should mention is the efficiency of an ICE vehicle averages around 25%. 75% lost in heat.

The efficiently of an EV averages 87%. 13% lost in heat.

So even if both ran on coal, EVs would still do a lot better than ICE for being green.

-Don- Redcrest, CA

 

[Starpower]

According to the Joint Office of Energy and Transportation, the U.S. had over 183,000 publicly available charging ports in 2024. I can't find the number of gas nozzles, but surely much more. It is indeed a ratio thing as pointed out. However, here in CA, The California Energy Commission (CEC) estimates about 120,000 gas nozzles in the state, compared to 178,000 public and shared private EV chargers.

That includes more than 162,000 Level 2 and nearly 17,000 DC fast chargers, and that doesn’t count the estimated 700,000-plus Level 2 chargers in single-family homes, according to the CEC.

 

[byke]

So….52 percent of California’s electricity comes from dirty sources.

And an additional 25 percent comes from sources that aren’t available 24/7.

And charging from your own solar panels can only happen during peak daylight hours.

Technically a little more, because biomass is definitely not "green" and belongs in with natural gas in their own category.

 

[DonTom]

I can't find the number of gas nozzles, but surely much more. I

There will never be the need for as many charge stations as gas stations. How many ICE vehicles fill up at home compared to EVs?

There were many EVs on the road (but nothing like today) before there was a single EV DCFC on the road. That is why the older Teslas could AC charge at 24KW and the newer ones only at 12 KW. 24KW used to be the "fast charge". And there are still many 24KW AC Tesla Destination charge stations left in the Reno area.

-Don- Redcrest, CA