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Low end torque OR high end power, which is worse for learning?

louemc said:
...On the street the powerband of a 600 sucks,...
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If you mean "sucks" = low, then isn't that a good thing for a "sensible learner"?

Corb said:
Whats the point of owning a 100hp bike if you are only going to use 35hp by keeping it under 7k rpm?
Why not buy a DRZ-SM and use all the 35hp all the time? Cheaper to buy, cheaper to insure, easier to work on, far more crash able and much more important a whole lot more fun to ride than a 600ss kept under 7000rpm.
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Very true. But that is not the point, the hypothesis is that a torquey v-twin like the SV has more muscle to scare / damage a less experienced rider all the way up to 8K.

Like a million dollar bank balance if you are going to use only a couple hundred a day... :) Again, this is not about me wanting to get a 100 hp i4. I am very content with the mortal hp from my 500R.
 
louemc said:
Ummm GAJ, Following "agree" with a "but" isn't a real agree :laughing

And...Injecting "different" choices of bikes...For who, doing what? Where?

This gets so wildly variable...It's just your opinion.

There was a degree of solid in the 600 vs 650 part.
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The original question was which bike was best for a "sensible" beginner with a little riding experience.

Of the two options offered the SV650 upright/naked version, (not the S) is a better choice than a 600SS in my opinion, your opinion and AFM199's opinion.

But there are better choices than just those two like the far lighter DRZ400SM Corb mentioned or the 500r that the OP rides.
 
pannayar said:
If you mean "sucks" = low, then isn't that a good thing for a "sensible learner"?



Very true. But that is not the point, the hypothesis is that a torquey v-twin like the SV has more muscle to scare / damage a less experienced rider all the way up to 8K.

Like a million dollar bank balance if you are going to use only a couple hundred a day... :) Again, this is not about me wanting to get a 100 hp i4. I am very content with the mortal hp from my 500R.
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There is no universal bike perfect for all beginners. Some are born with the capacity to become fighter plane pilots others will struggle surviving everyday commuting in a automatic car.
That said I don't think the SV is a great beginner bike for somebody that is 100% new to bikes. If I have to explain to you what a clutch does and where it is on the bike probably an XR200 or a MSF Rebel 250 would be a better first ride choice.
However if the choice is in between an SV650, preferably naked because the handelbars give far better control at slow speeds and a 600SS I think hands down the twin is a better choice.
 
pannayar said:
If you mean "sucks" = low, then isn't that a good thing for a "sensible learner"?
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It's not about high or low, it's about shape.

[/QUOTE]

I think that if you can't handle that much power from the start, you've got issues of some kind that need to be resolved to be safe.

Your 500R, 50 years ago, would be way too powerful for a "beginner" bike.
 
Jiggles said:
Read the whole post before responding please, it only had one more sentence.
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I did.

In that case, if you're going to make such a statement, be prepared to provide hard data to back it up so you make your points clear. :nerd
 
pannayar said:
What is your point? That a hayabusa will be beginner friendly in the future...???
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LOL, probably!

Just that our perception of what is dangerous, or too much, changes with time and generations.

I think you're technically correct in a way, but that the weight to power factor is so skewed at that point that it becomes moot.

Edit: You know what? Kept to 3000RPM, I bet the 'busa is a good beginner bike. Nice and low. Slower steering. Stable. What's not to like?
 
Daks said:
Not a whole lot of videos of people looping or having SV650 bikes get away from them. Then again, the more sensible people are buying them....
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This was one of the earliest bike crashes I recall on youtube.
[youtube]pXfM4tbx9nY[/youtube]

But I do think the sv650 is the better choice.
 
For good measure...

[youtube]QKsOGFh3Efk[/youtube]

[youtube]OWObyssYb3A[/youtube]
 
Torque or horsepower. Doesn't really matter. And you do realize that horsepower is a mathematically derived number based on torque and RPM?

The more important thing, as it relates to your question, is how it's delivered.

And, for a first bike, there are far, far more important issues than power.
 
ST Guy said:
Torque or horsepower. Doesn't really matter. And you do realize that horsepower is a mathematically derived number based on torque and RPM?

The more important thing, as it relates to your question, is how it's delivered.

And, for a first bike, there are far, far more important issues than power.
Click to expand...

:thumbup
 
Just get a ninja 250, the most forgiving bike and has the look of a sport bike. The damn thing is tons of fun, can handle freeway "fairly well" (YMMV), and for the most part, you can keep up with the average guy on a 600cc in the twisties, if not past him. AND THEY ARE CHEAPPP.
I started on one, and moved up to a r6. And man, let me tell you, if I started on an r6 instead...i'd be in some major trouble...
 
pannayar said:
If you mean "sucks" = low, then isn't that a good thing for a "sensible learner"?
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Not necessarily. If the power at low revs is too low, then the newbie has to rev the engine pretty high in order to not stall when getting moving. And that's a big problem, because a new rider doesn't have good throttle/clutch control, so it's easy for him (or her) to rev the engine a little too high, drop the clutch a little too quickly, and completely lose control. Low power at low revs, combined with a big step up in power at higher revs, is what causes problems for new riders. Add to that a riding position that puts a lot of weight on the rider's hands, making it harder to manipulate the controls, and you have a recipe for disaster. That's why a sportbike is a poor choice for a new rider.
 
ilikefood said:
Not necessarily. If the power at low revs is too low, then the newbie has to rev the engine pretty high in order to not stall when getting moving. And that's a big problem, because a new rider doesn't have good throttle/clutch control, so it's easy for him (or her) to rev the engine a little too high, drop the clutch a little too quickly, and completely lose control. Low power at low revs, combined with a big step up in power at higher revs, is what causes problems for new riders. Add to that a riding position that puts a lot of weight on the rider's hands, making it harder to manipulate the controls, and you have a recipe for disaster. That's why a sportbike is a poor choice for a new rider.
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/thread
 
babyhuyx said:
Just get a ninja 250,...
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FWIW, as a noob myself, I find the SV more manageable than the Ninja 250.

Something about the instant and linear relation between the throttle and the RPM's makes it easier to modulate speed than something with more lag at the bottom end (the 250 and the VFR). When this much twist gives you this much go, and does so right away, it's a little easier not to inadvertently overdo it?

I've never tried a GixxaCBR6tona though, so I accept the likelihood that I am entirely wrong.
 
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