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My R1200S blew its engine yesterday
- Thread starter nvp
- Start date
NorCal_SV650S
Active member
I would assume there would be some pinging or detonation, but also when I look at the Dynojet maps, it is not at low RPMS or High RPMs where the lean condition is happening...the Dynojet maps actually REMOVE quite a bit of fuel high in the rev range...so if you were reving the bike high it would be okay...but the boxer motors tend (to me) to run best at those mid range revs...right where it is running very lean (once again according to the maps, I do not have a R1200S)...at add to that the heads being air/oil cooled...and there is little to prevent the exhaust valves for getting really really hot...so after some extend periods of really high exhaust heat...
Mike95060
Work In Progress
Does anyone know of this issue happening with a stock exhaust system? Me thinks the the previous posts concerning lean fueling being exacerbated by aftermarket exhausts and no remapping are spot on.
The OP said the same thing happened to his brother. I didn't hear if the brother had a full system too. To me it would be more than a coincidence.
Cheyenne
New member
This is very common in the car world as well...extra fuel to keep things cool when people max out the engine. I'm sure some "tuners" think that will keep their turbo engine happy...until they run out of fuel pump capacity...POP!
In the midrange, you're fighting for fuel economy, and in the range that may be tested for emissions as well.
To me, it's tremendously sad that manufacturers don't put in functionality to deal with people swapping out pipes and modding airboxes. I mean...they know you're going to ride in the cold and give you heated grips right? I know it adds cost, but on a gizmo laden bike, the fact that the engine can't deal with minor mods well...sucks. But it's not like they're alone in that, and it would add some cost so...
I sure understand the need to fight for market share and all that...but to let your reputation for building reliable, well engineered stuff get lost in the process? People have no pride in their work...at least the executives...I wouldn't be surprised if the engineers were disgusted at what they are asked to do. I hope they are!
WTF
The bike has a full exhaust system that probably wasn't tuned for the bike. It's an illegal system. How is BMW in any shape or form mandated to provide customer support for illegal street mods? IIRC the OP bought the bike with the full illegal system and it was installed by a dealer. IMHO responsibility is with the installing shop and the OP. BMW provided the platform. Others decided to change the engineering and screwed up. BMWNA might help out for name sake but IMO from this chair I don't see any liability for them.
This is just another example of no personal responsibility and the entitlement attitude.
ob1ventura
Active member
IF the damage was caused by a lean mixture due to the aftermarket exhaust it sucks that the exhaust was recommended and installed by the BMW dealership.
Cheyenne
New member
No it's an example of you sniffing glue I think...
It's not about that they should be mandated, it's about they pretend to be "high tech" but their engine isn't flexible enough to tune itself around relatively small changes in airflow. Come on, what does a pipe get you on a flowbench, 5%?
It's not like I expect an engine to deal with someone slapping a turbo on it, but come on, we're talking about a pipe and air filter here. Something commonly done by customers. I'm not up on engine management stuff anymore, but everyone always goes as cheap as they can on that stuff. I'm sure it's possible, and customers would see it not only as a good value, but a demonstration of technology, which is much of what BMW marketing is about.
also, it would be nice if the engine could tell when things like clogged injectors happened, and shut down at least that cylinder to avoid damage...little upsides like that.
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No it's an example of you sniffing glue I think...
It's not about that they should be mandated, it's about they pretend to be "high tech" but their engine isn't flexible enough to tune itself around relatively small changes in airflow. Come on, what does a pipe get you on a flowbench, 5%?
It's not like I expect an engine to deal with someone slapping a turbo on it, but come on, we're talking about a pipe and air filter here. Something commonly done by customers. I'm not up on engine management stuff anymore, but everyone always goes as cheap as they can on that stuff. I'm sure it's possible, and customers would see it not only as a good value, but a demonstration of technology, which is much of what BMW marketing is about.
also, it would be nice if the engine could tell when things like clogged injectors happened, and shut down at least that cylinder to avoid damage...little upsides like that.
I'm guessing that the limiting factors are; CARB, EPA, and the need to generate a profit (cost of complying with regulations AND creating "work-arounds" would end up on the wrong side of the "cost vs benefit" equation)
ob1ventura
Active member
Seems like there are a lot of bikes out there w/ aftermarket exhaust, air filters and stock maps that are not blowing their motors. They are probably running even leaner than brilliant asses in Sacto mandate but while there may be long term damage they are not droping valves.
1RUN
ants in my pants
Umm - it's my understanding that the exhaust system was actually listed in the BMW accessory catalog, and then sold and installed by the BMW dealer. So much for your fun rant...
1RUN
ants in my pants
My bike was completely stock.
Cheyenne
New member
True, and true, but how badass would it be to have a bike that not only retuned itself to deal with whatever pipe and airbox mods you did, but also used an accelerometer to keep itself tuned for best performance?
No need for a dyno day...just bolt some stuff on, and be faster.
9rPilot
Olde Phart
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My vote goes with EPA/CARB requirements... I know the Ducs and FI'd KTMs I have were ridiculously lean from the factory. I had to "fix" each by remapping to stop the popping, surging, inability to idle issues caused by the too lean maps the factories use to get past EPA/CARB. After the remaps, each bike ran smoother, and cooler. I'm sure the factories are no more happy about this then we are, but I believe they're hamstrung by the EPA/CARB and can't allow the flexibility in their fueling programming and stay compliant with the EPA/CARB requirements. (That's why Ducati offers the Ducati Performance ECU, an ECU with the map that you should've gotten from the factory but the EPA wouldn't allow...).
It would not surprise me if the OP's engine failure were to be related to the exacerbation of the lean nature of the OEM fueling map when combined with the addiitonal air flow of the filter/pipe combo. (and I agree that it sucks that this small a change could contribute to this significant a failure...)
(ps: and yes I know I am an enemy of the state and Al Gore for retuning my fueling maps on my bikes... Sorry Mr. Gore - I planted a tree and ate a cow to offset my increased carbon footprint ;-)
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Umm - it's my understanding that the exhaust system was actually listed in the BMW accessory catalog, and then sold and installed by the BMW dealer. So much for your fun rant...
It may have been listed in a catalog but was it installed and tuned correctly? Was it a street legal exhaust system? No, I highly doubt it.
Before or after you took off the aftermarket equipment?
1RUN
ants in my pants
WTF are you talking about? :|
1RUN
ants in my pants
ST Guy
Well-known member
Whats confusing about 3 different engines powering 25 different bikes?
Well, all that's simple enough. It's the alphabet soup they use to designate all the different models. Welsh makes more sense to me.