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NFL 2019

Okay, you do battered spouse and I'll do battered children. Same thing really and I agree. It's the only way to explain it, that weird mixture of loyalty, fear and overall probably intoxicated enthusiasm.

I will say that the athletes themselves should be excluded from all of this, though some have certainly tried to promote the brand, as it were.

I stopped being a Raider fan when they moved to LA. In the olden days, that was really an insult to a Norcal type. PS. Glad Madbum went somewhere besides LA even if in division.

That seems Legit AF to me. I mean, in 1981, the Raiders had been non-stop balling except for their first few shitty years when Davis was coach. After burning me to go to another town, and L.A. of all places, I would be done.

Like, if I was a Browns fan, I would NEVER accept the Ravens to come back to my town. The Browns are only legit in Cleveland, because of the deal that let them keep the name and legacy in their town and resurrected in the new stadium under new ownership.
 
You guys are hilarious. I have never seen a bigger bunch of fools than those who claim that their team treats them better than another. Unless you have an incurable cancer or are an underpriveledged youth, exactly NONE of your teams do or have ever done anything for you! You pay them money, and they get to live lavish lifestyles leveraging your naivete that they care about you.

Fandom is what each individual makes of it. That you think the Yorks or the Maras give a flying fuck about you is the height of gullibility. "My team will never leave the town they started in" as you look to the side and have that instant of thought that, hey waitaminute...they could leave and maybe already have actually left and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Then the whole house of cards you build your superiority complex comes crashing down, yet you'll find another reason to make yourselves feel better by looking down at other fans. You put your owners on a pedestal, "yeah, me and Mr. Mara are tight. I've been rooting for him and his team for decades. He cares about me." :rofl
 
Even the Maras had to sell out to Tisch when multi millionaires could no longer afford teams.

Theyre corporate entities that provide entertainment, anything beyond that is on the fans.

Frankly, I'll go to Vegas before I'd go to Oakland for a game, and I was invited to go to 2 of them this year. It's hard leaving the comfort of my house and big TV for a football game, and THAT is the NFL today, tomorrow, and for the foreseeable future.

I won't even go to baseball games there til they build a new stadium.
 
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You guys are hilarious. I have never seen a bigger bunch of fools than those who claim that their team treats them better than another. Unless you have an incurable cancer or are an underpriveledged youth, exactly NONE of your teams do or have ever done anything for you! You pay them money, and they get to live lavish lifestyles leveraging your naivete that they care about you.

Fandom is what each individual makes of it. That you think the Yorks or the Maras give a flying fuck about you is the height of gullibility. "My team will never leave the town they started in" as you look to the side and have that instant of thought that, hey waitaminute...they could leave and maybe already have actually left and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Then the whole house of cards you build your superiority complex comes crashing down, yet you'll find another reason to make yourselves feel better by looking down at other fans. You put your owners on a pedestal, "yeah, me and Mr. Mara are tight. I've been rooting for him and his team for decades. He cares about me." :rofl

actually they pay me.
 
Eddie D deserves a pedestal for all the great entertainment that he brought to my family. 3 generations of 49er fans got to share the family vibe. Those little kids are now 40 and 37 and are sharing it with the next generation.

Pics below. Me with my sons.

And my younger son with his nephew at a recent game.

We bought my Dad a brick at the stadium to memorialize his affect on the entire clan.

So many great memories.
 

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You guys are hilarious. I have never seen a bigger bunch of fools than those who claim that their team treats them better than another. Unless you have an incurable cancer or are an underpriveledged youth, exactly NONE of your teams do or have ever done anything for you! You pay them money, and they get to live lavish lifestyles leveraging your naivete that they care about you.

l

I think most fans just want at least a concession to their existence. Of course we know its a business and they want to make money. But there is a historic connection between geographical places and teams that has been quite celebrated as a part of the culture.

It's pretty much over but there are exceptions where the owners are locals or at least cognizant or who are caught up in the excitement of the chase, so to speak. Eddie D was that way, and I think Joe Lacob is as well. But both orgs messed with fan heads and their moves but nothing like the Davis'

And most fans are teevee fans anyway, so except for their cable bill and the occasional t-shirt, they ain't makin money off of me...
 
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been a Raider fan since I knew what a football was, yeah some has to do with living in Oakland at the time. the Snake just infuriated me in the 70s but then he won a super bowl. I grew up throwing a football side arm. All the almost won it all except for some flook play, I just couldn't turn away.
When the Raiders moved to LA I tried to be a niner fan but it didn't have the same gut wrenching sickness. I truly hated Al for moving the team but then upon a book,The League: The Rise and Decline of the NFL, https://www.amazon.com/League-Rise-Decline-NFL/dp/0553051679, and read up on Al and the owners of that time. Al was really forced into moving the team to LAwhen Rozelle told the Coliseum commission that the NFL wouldn't let him move the team, and so they stopped negotiating on luxury boxes. Al stole the team fair and square and turned into it to a storied franchise, but then after he let Chucky get away and then lost to him in a SB it was never the same and neither was he.
To deny Al's impact on the sport in so many areas is being blind to history.
Teh one thing we must remember about Al is only cared about one thing, the RAIDERS.
 
You guys are hilarious. I have never seen a bigger bunch of fools than those who claim that their team treats them better than another. Unless you have an incurable cancer or are an underpriveledged youth, exactly NONE of your teams do or have ever done anything for you! You pay them money, and they get to live lavish lifestyles leveraging your naivete that they care about you.

Fandom is what each individual makes of it. That you think the Yorks or the Maras give a flying fuck about you is the height of gullibility. "My team will never leave the town they started in" as you look to the side and have that instant of thought that, hey waitaminute...they could leave and maybe already have actually left and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Then the whole house of cards you build your superiority complex comes crashing down, yet you'll find another reason to make yourselves feel better by looking down at other fans. You put your owners on a pedestal, "yeah, me and Mr. Mara are tight. I've been rooting for him and his team for decades. He cares about me." :rofl

LOL, my team is one of the oldest in the NFL and is based in the wealthiest media market in the entire world. They just built their new stadium with zero public dollars, I reckon they aren't going anywhere.

Obviously anyone who thinks a random individual is cared for by a large business entity is absurd, but certainly team owners can and should care about their fan base in general, because that is in fact their revenue stream. The Green Bay Packers are actually bloody non-profit corporation owned by by the public.

Maybe you do not understand team sports. The whole point of team sports entertainment is that you want to see your team win in an athletic competition that you care about, usually because you love the game itself. You spend money on this entertainment under the assumption that your chosen team will provide you with a competitive entertainment product you want to watch.

Regions with Teams that are typically just bad performers for extended periods, like the Bucs or the Falcons, need to rely more on love of the game combined with regional pride to get a subscriber base, and for people from a certain area that love the game, that is usually enough to get them on board, although typically in lower volume and at cheaper rates than teams who can win for their fan base.

Then you get to a team like the Cardinals, who were not very good and then left their region. You have to figure there probably are not any damn Cards fans in Chicago or St Louis. This is why the L.A. Chargers are going to die as a franchise. The Rams will be forgiven for returning, because they win.

Then you have the perplexing case of the Raiders, which brings us to the current topic. They have no ability to develop a winning football product and seem to have spent decades actively sabotaging their own success through ownership meddling that was outside standard Pro Team operations. They have wildly disrespected the region on multiple occasions as an organization, yet still, the fan base likes to show up and make noise about the team.

That is the question, and based on the above case, I don't think it is a strange one.
 
Eddie D deserves a pedestal for all the great entertainment that he brought to my family. 3 generations of 49er fans got to share the family vibe. Those little kids are now 40 and 37 and are sharing it with the next generation.

Pics below. Me with my sons.

And my younger son with his nephew at a recent game.

We bought my Dad a brick at the stadium to memorialize his affect on the entire clan.

So many great memories.

Yeah, all my Season Ticket Holding Niner cousins burned a lot of their shit when they moved the team to San Jose, but at least the Niners are trying to milk a, "Greater Bay Area," lie and respect the heritage in SF.

They deserve the hairy eyeball for trying to keep the historical legacy of the great SF team, but move it to a bigger City with more money at the same time. Those sly devils are milking the best of both worlds, at least they still kind of kept one foot in the SF legacy by maintaining the name, even if it is a charade. It is not like they moved to Nebraska or some shit.

I was just as sad when they did that as when they sent Montana to Kansas City. The Niners were always a pretty noble rival for my guys when I was a kid and most of my West Coast family are Niner fans. I've been to more pro games at Candlestick than any other venue in pro sports.
 
Maybe you do not understand team sports. The whole point of team sports entertainment is that you want to see your team win in an athletic competition that you care about, usually because you love the game itself. You spend money on this entertainment under the assumption that your chosen team will provide you with a competitive entertainment product you want to watch.

um excuse me no the point is to try your best and have fun :x


fuck I almost typed that whole thing without pausing to laugh
 
LOL, my team is one of the oldest in the NFL and is based in the wealthiest media market in the entire world. They just built their new stadium with zero public dollars, I reckon they aren't going anywhere.

Obviously anyone who thinks a random individual is cared for by a large business entity is absurd, but certainly team owners can and should care about their fan base in general, because that is in fact their revenue stream. The Green Bay Packers are actually bloody non-profit corporation owned by by the public.

Maybe you do not understand team sports. The whole point of team sports entertainment is that you want to see your team win in an athletic competition that you care about, usually because you love the game itself. You spend money on this entertainment under the assumption that your chosen team will provide you with a competitive entertainment product you want to watch.

Regions with Teams that are typically just bad performers for extended periods, like the Bucs or the Falcons, need to rely more on love of the game combined with regional pride to get a subscriber base, and for people from a certain area that love the game, that is usually enough to get them on board, although typically in lower volume and at cheaper rates than teams who can win for their fan base.

Then you get to a team like the Cardinals, who were not very good and then left their region. You have to figure there probably are not any damn Cards fans in Chicago or St Louis. This is why the L.A. Chargers are going to die as a franchise. The Rams will be forgiven for returning, because they win.

Then you have the perplexing case of the Raiders, which brings us to the current topic. They have no ability to develop a winning football product and seem to have spent decades actively sabotaging their own success through ownership meddling that was outside standard Pro Team operations. They have wildly disrespected the region on multiple occasions as an organization, yet still, the fan base likes to show up and make noise about the team.

That is the question, and based on the above case, I don't think it is a strange one.

it sounds like you understand your error and have self-realized fandom is more about the team than the city. I'm glad you worked it out for yourself.
 
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it sounds like you understand your error and have self-realized fandom is more about the team than the city. I'm glad you worked it out for yourself.

What is my error? I haven't assumed any conclusions. The fact that the Team is the thing you choose is my point. All my reasons for supporting a team as per normal are outlined above, and they do not apply logically to the Raiders, which is my question.

They both cannot produce a quality football product nor do they appreciate the region (which is why most teams are appreciated, winning or regional pride) so I am trying to understand whatever 3rd factor makes Raider fans Raider fans?
 
So far this year the Raiders literally have twice as many wins as the Giants, using your logic you should abandon your team. :dunno
 
So far this year the Raiders literally have twice as many wins as the Giants, using your logic you should abandon your team. :dunno

Not at all. Every team has some bad years. in the 70's we were just the WORST. However, my guys consistently win an NFL Championship about once every decade since the 1930's. We have played in more championship games than any team in NFL history, but we usually lose (8-14). Still, getting to the game does help with feeling like your guys got somewhere, you know? :dunno

Not really trying to make a contest with that, I realize that you cannot expect that kind of production from most teams, they can't all win championships, but if they at least compete at least in your conference, you know? Like, up until recently, the Eagles (Bastards!) had never won a Championship in the Superbowl Era, but I never questioned the wins motivation, because that team would probably keister cornflakes before every game rather than move away and they win a lot in the regular season, unfortunately. In the last 25 years, they have like 15 winning seasons. Well over half the time, they put up a good fight.

The Raiders have put together 5 winning seasons in the last 25 years and won nothing big in all that time. A flippin' quarter century.

That is why I have to wonder if the only thing that feeds the fans is the memory of some golden age shit from 40+ years ago. It is fine if that is all it is, but I just don't understand.
 
The Raiders are like that old football HS quarterback who had his glory days back in HS and married the the fastest girl on the cheerleading squad. After beating the hell out of her for years, he ran off with another chick for a bunch of years, but then returned after 10 years to his HS sweatheart who was still in love with the HS football star who had grown a fat paunch but still generally looked like his younger self. Now that he's hitting middle age and thinking about his retirement, he decided that the young stripper he had met would be a better choice, so he's leaving his HS GF again. :twofinger
 
The Raiders are like that old football HS quarterback who had his glory days back in HS and married the the fastest girl on the cheerleading squad. After beating the hell out of her for years, he ran off with another chick for a bunch of years, but then returned after 10 years to his HS sweatheart who was still in love with the HS football star who had grown a fat paunch but still generally looked like his younger self. Now that he's hitting middle age and thinking about his retirement, he decided that the young stripper he had met would be a better choice, so he's leaving his HS GF again. :twofinger

Don't you have another depressing downer thread to start up? :twofinger :laughing
 
The Raiders are like that old football HS quarterback who had his glory days back in HS and married the the fastest girl on the cheerleading squad. After beating the hell out of her for years, he ran off with another chick for a bunch of years, but then returned after 10 years to his HS sweatheart who was still in love with the HS football star who had grown a fat paunch but still generally looked like his younger self. Now that he's hitting middle age and thinking about his retirement, he decided that the young stripper he had met would be a better choice, so he's leaving his HS GF again. :twofinger

That's oddly specific.

:twofinger
 
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