PGA going downhill?

[NorCalAthlete]

I liken watching golf to watching wood turning or welding videos. It's not so much the action so much as a master at their craft doing things I can imitate, but not replicate.

I'm about a 9 handicap at the moment, and shot a 90 and a 72 back to back last Sunday (played 36 holes, first tee time was 7am, 2nd was 1:30). These guys are walking about 4-5 miles per 18, days in a row, and have to maintain very fine control over their shots. There is athleticism involved, and while it's less physical than hockey, or basketball, or soccer, to say that they're not athletes is still doing them a disservice. Sumo wrestlers are athletes.

You could bring up John Daly, but then there's also this list of the fattest NFL players to counter, and pretty much anyone would call an NFL player an athlete.

Hockey is far more physical than either (not to mention hardcore in terms of physical violence, not just exertion).

 

[Eldritch]

You are missing out. Quite possibly the most difficult sport to win or even remain competitive. No substitutions, no physical assistance. Having a bad round? Keep going. PGA format: 4 days of the same course, only weather and pin positions changing day by day (sometimes a tee box, but rarely). If you manage to make the cut going into the weekend and have a few mis swings on Sat, you have to swallow it and keep playing another day. Most athletes wouldn't even show up.

Visually, they play on the most interesting fields, as well.

There is only one thing I want in sports, physical violence. Golf is an old man sport, it does not remotely qualify.

It is a KILLER way to do business and an awesome way to keep an activity going while you drink, much like playing darts or poker, but I could give 2 shits about how much precision dart throwing and pro poker also requires a lot of commitment and focus.

 

[Sharxfan]

right. that makes it not a sport.

I can go get drunk and slide around on the ice, too. Hockey is not a sport.

Touche. I use the same qualifier for baseball if big old fat guys can play it isn't a sport.

There is only one thing I want in sports, physical violence. Golf is an old man sport, it does not remotely qualify.

It is a KILLER way to do business and an awesome way to keep an activity going while you drink, much like playing darts or poker, but I could give 2 shits about how much precision dart throwing and pro poker also requires a lot of commitment and focus.

God I miss playing Thanksgiving football in the old hoods in Cali. Played football on Thanksgiving and was sore for 4 days after. One year we got a ton of guys from work to come down to my hood and play in the game and it was hilarious as hell on Monday when all us guys were walking around like 80 year old geriatrics.

 

[MC BumSlap]

PGA TOUR's response:
https://twitter.com/MartySmithESPN/status/1534898097767301122?s=20&t=xe2H1fzwXgRPTZRWp3fpQQ

 

[mikev]

Touche. I use the same qualifier for baseball if big old fat guys can play it isn't a sport.

that being said, hitting a round ball with a round bat that's been thrown by someone specifically trying to make sure you don't hit it? Probably the hardest skill in sports.

 

[MC BumSlap]

that being said, hitting a round ball with a round bat that's been thrown by someone specifically trying to make sure you don't hit it? Probably the hardest skill in sports.

I agree. That is super hard. That's why players who can do their job more than 30% of the time at the plate get paid big money.

 

[fraz]

Tell me you’re a 30+ handicap, lose every ball in the bag, swing uglier than Charles Barkley, three putt every hole kinda guy without telling me you’re a 30+ handicap, lose every ball in the bag, swing uglier than Charles Barkley, three putt every hole kinda guy.

Hey, no swing-shaming here! The fat and uncoordinated already have strikes against us.

These guys are walking about 4-5 miles per 18

Yeah and the high handicapper hits the ball twice as many times, and walks twice as far (8-9 miles according to my fitbit), and doesn't have a caddy carrying their bag/clubs and helping them make shots. Hell, I'm out there huffing and puffing and wheezing you'd think Weird Al was doing an accordion solo. Y'all ain't tellin' me it's not physical.

 

[Eldritch]

God I miss playing Thanksgiving football in the old hoods in Cali. Played football on Thanksgiving and was sore for 4 days after. One year we got a ton of guys from work to come down to my hood and play in the game and it was hilarious as hell on Monday when all us guys were walking around like 80 year old geriatrics.

LOL, in my 30's I was taking some classes at CCSF and saw the Football Team practicing a few times (Go Rams!). It's only Community College, so I caught myself thinking about trying out for the team just for fun, since most the guys on offense weren't very big and then had to remind myself that my knees didn't even get all the way through high school and I would be dead.

 

[Climber]

Why do you always start shit and then bring up that your'e a track coach? FFS

Did you cat piss in your coffee this morning?

If you're at my level, with my training, then you aren't only training them, you're developing them and you know what's going on in their body throughout the whole training cycle.

Yes, it's relevent, but you clearly wouldn't even begin to know that. Sorry that you get so insecure over things that you have to stick your nose into areas you have little knowldege of.

 

[Climber]

Given the parameters, I am quite qualified.

You would need to commit to quite the conversation if you want to go any deeper. I truly love where this could go and want to set the table properly. It will be good natured and involve lots of banter. Just want to make sure you are prepared.

Cool. I do have respect for gol players, but their requirements are different than some other sports, I'll be interested to hear your perspective on it, I'm sure that there are things involved that I know little about in the upper levels of golf.

 

[Johndicezx9]

The PGA officially suspended the players that bolted.

If I was a low level PGA qualifier on the fringe of making tournaments I think I'd like my chances....

Ultimately, the money talks... SA money, or PGA + sponsor money. Some of the corporate sponsors have already cut ties with players.

 

[ScarySpikes]

Apparently only 2 big name golfers have turned down LIV. Tiger, turned down apparently close to a billion dollars, though. Apparently for him, he already has plenty of money, he's retiring soon anyway, and he wants to keep his PGA legacy and be known as the best of all time. Rory MCilroy apparently turned down a fuck ton of money, much more explicitly on the human rights grounds.

Golf is just one of many sports that SA is trying to use to wash the blood off of their hands.

I can understand how a mid level pro golfer would take the guarantee of like 5 million dollars over having to work to maybe get a million if they are lucky.

 

[MC BumSlap]

Money talks....

According to pgatour.com, the average PGA Tour player earned just under $1.5 million in 2021. That number spans from that year's money leader, Jon Rahm, who earned a cool $7,705,933 million, to the PGA Tour's 250th place earner, Parker McLachlin, who earned $6,090.

Obviously before sponsorship money.

Parker McLachlin calling LIV asking to get paid $1 million to play? What's the alternative for him? Cruising for trophy wives at the country club as it's "Course Pro"?

 

[mrmarklin]

In 2021 only the top 124 golfers make over a million $$ on tour.
It seems like a lot, but expenses are very heavy. Travel, hotels, meals, tournament fees, practice fees, personal caddy (not all have this), etc.

The other 126 golfers that make less than this, are barely earning a living, unless they have endorsements.

So the temptation would be big to jump ship if I'm on the bubble of money so to speak.

 

[Johndicezx9]

The LIV tour wants nothing to do golfers "on the bubble"....

 

[fraz]

Here's the actual notice from PGA regarding suspension. Called out names and everything.

One thing that sounded good was they are removing these players from FedEx Cup points which sounds like the right thing to do. One thing I would also like to see, is to immediately allow the next X number of qualifiers from Q-school into the tour. It would also be the fair and reasonable thing to do. It's a grind to get good enough to get your tour card and those guys have earned it IMO.

 

[mean dad]

What does being a track coach have to do with the knowing how athletic a professional golfer must be?

Does anyone at the upper level of any field have similar insights into golf as a track coach?

What does a track coach's knowledge about students bodies developing have to do with knowing a professional golfer's level of athleticism?

Thanks.

 

[James]

Cool. I do have respect for gol players, but their requirements are different than some other sports, I'll be interested to hear your perspective on it, I'm sure that there are things involved that I know little about in the upper levels of golf.

NorcalAthlete put together a very accurate post regarding some of the factors that separate golf. It isn't a sprint sport, its the epitome of a marathon. No other sport offers a lifetime pursuit with failure as the constant. When a serious golfer has a shot within the distance of their tools, the goal is to put the ball in the hole. Mentally, balancing the drive to achieve while accepting the results over and over will mentally beat down most humans.

Along a different path: the massive amount of competitors that are all individually golfing and comparing scores at the end is a format in and of itself.

There are extremely few tournaments where the leader walks away from the field. Commonly, there is a group that forms where the difference is a tiny. The elite group is talented.

As to the life of a golfer. The coordination, physical conditioning, and mental approach - it's special in that the responsibility is solely on the golfer. Some choose to make it their life, others pursue it at whatever level they feel is proper. But, the golfers working on their game put millions of balls down range.

Swimming has a similar requirement. Where you truly hone your skills by swimming. Accessory workouts help fitness and condition the body, but swimming is how you tie the muscles and coordination together to swim fast and far. Golf, you have to hit balls. The elite golfers can tell you withing 1 to 2 millimeters where the face impacted the ball. That's after accelerating a club to over 100mph in a short period of time. Think about the driver. The elite golfer is targeting a 10-15 foot circle over 1000 feet away. Some driving holes are easier than others, but the elite golfer is focused on that specific target. No other sport drives the object ball without chemistry being involved.

The simplest sectors of the game: the tee box, the approach, and putting are each individually handled and combined by the player. If you haven't pursued it. The frustration of "feeling" 2 and not having any grasp of the 3rd is enough to cause grown men to throw their club. I've seen it, and it's hilarious.

Now, that's just a glimpse of the individual and their clubs. That isn't even starting to address that it's 18 holes to a course, and there is zero consistency between holes throughout the world. Sure, similar feel or aspects. But, the greens keeper moves the hole position on greens. If they have a fight with their wife that morning, you may not be able to putt the ball close enough to feel confident you can drop the ball in the hole. That's not common, but it happens. Will provide a link to a recent story where the college women's tournament put a hole where the average score was 3 over par.

The complexities of golf surpass most offerings in sports. It is slower. Takes a lot of interest to enjoy. But, if you get bit by the bug, it becomes a part of you. It's not for everybody. It's too hard

 

[Abacinator]

What does being a track coach have to do with the knowing how athletic a professional golfer must be?

Does anyone at the upper level of any field have similar insights into golf as a track coach?

What does a track coach's knowledge about students bodies developing have to do with knowing a professional golfer's level of athleticism?

Thanks.

Classic appeal to authority.

NorcalAthlete put together a very accurate post regarding some of the factors that separate golf. It isn't a sprint sport, its the epitome of a marathon. No other sport offers a lifetime pursuit with failure as the constant. When a serious golfer has a shot within the distance of their tools, the goal is to put the ball in the hole. Mentally, balancing the drive to achieve while accepting the results over and over will mentally beat down most humans.

Along a different path: the massive amount of competitors that are all individually golfing and comparing scores at the end is a format in and of itself.

There are extremely few tournaments where the leader walks away from the field. Commonly, there is a group that forms where the difference is a tiny. The elite group is talented.

As to the life of a golfer. The coordination, physical conditioning, and mental approach - it's special in that the responsibility is solely on the golfer. Some choose to make it their life, others pursue it at whatever level they feel is proper. But, the golfers working on their game put millions of balls down range.

Swimming has a similar requirement. Where you truly hone your skills by swimming. Accessory workouts help fitness and condition the body, but swimming is how you tie the muscles and coordination together to swim fast and far. Golf, you have to hit balls. The elite golfers can tell you withing 1 to 2 millimeters where the face impacted the ball. That's after accelerating a club to over 100mph in a short period of time. Think about the driver. The elite golfer is targeting a 10-15 foot circle over 1000 feet away. Some driving holes are easier than others, but the elite golfer is focused on that specific target. No other sport drives the object ball without chemistry being involved.

The simplest sectors of the game: the tee box, the approach, and putting are each individually handled and combined by the player. If you haven't pursued it. The frustration of "feeling" 2 and not having any grasp of the 3rd is enough to cause grown men to throw their club. I've seen it, and it's hilarious.

Now, that's just a glimpse of the individual and their clubs. That isn't even starting to address that it's 18 holes to a course, and there is zero consistency between holes throughout the world. Sure, similar feel or aspects. But, the greens keeper moves the hole position on greens. If they have a fight with their wife that morning, you may not be able to putt the ball close enough to feel confident you can drop the ball in the hole. That's not common, but it happens. Will provide a link to a recent story where the college women's tournament put a hole where the average score was 3 over par.

The complexities of golf surpass most offerings in sports. It is slower. Takes a lot of interest to enjoy. But, if you get bit by the bug, it becomes a part of you. It's not for everybody. It's too hard

I'd say that a marathon is the epitome of a marathon.

You'll never convince me that golf doesn't suck. But I'm also happy that you enjoy it

 

[MC BumSlap]

Before Tiger, dad bods were the norm on the tour, right? He changed the physical aspect of the sport.

https://www.stgeorgesgolf.com/Blog/May_2018/tiger-woods-effect.aspx

Tiger Woods raised the bar on golfers' athleticism. To him, this was a sport like any other and required the same sort of physical training.

Using a combination of flexibility exercises and weight routines, he worked out five or six days a week in sessions that were up to three hours long. Within 11 years of turning pro, Woods added 25 or 30 pounds of muscle mass to his frame and grew his waist from 29 inches to 31 inches.

Other golfers saw Woods' dedication to athleticism and took note. Phil Mickelson, for example, started working with a trainer to improve his back and joint muscles.