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So, racism by Starbucks or just two guys who wouldn't buy a cup of coffee?

ontherearwheel said:
Actually it's against the law, which has nothing to do with right or wrong.

Freedom of choice also includes serving who you want to or not and for any reasons. Freedom.....

Right and wrong are value assetments based solely on a person's concepts of reality. Which are then used to limit freedom.

You may not like the concept, but that does not make it right or wrong.
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"Freedom of choice" is an excuse used by bigots and other intolerant people.

And legally, no, businesses don't have absolute freedom of choice.
 
Reli said:
"Freedom of choice" is an excuse used by bigots and other intolerant people.

And legally, no, businesses don't have absolute freedom of choice.
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If a group or business wants to freely discriminate they may, If they are a private members only establishment.

Golf country clubs are often a good example of this. While I think this practice is odious, it is legal.
 
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Blankpage said:
Well one reason, I've scored with three different girls I've met at Starbucks. Why else would a non coffee drinker go there.
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:thumbup I dated a barista from starbucks once, but I didn't need hours a day to accomplish this. But you would never buy anything and just sit there? Still seems strange to me, but if you're meeting that many women there maybe I'm doing something wrong :laughing
 
Also I'm quite sure that Starbucks makes money, or receives some other fungible benefit from people using their wifi.

Otherwise they wouldn't offer it. They're a business, not a kind-hearted neighbor willing to offer you a cup of sugar.
 
Give the guys their $50K plus the Jackson-Sharpton stipend and put it to rest.

Give the manager a hush slush of $150k for throwing them under the bus for doing what regional execs wanted to have happen and announce the training session solved the miscommunication problem.

"Starbucks, we don't just ask you to leave, we kick your ass all the way to Uranus."
 
Reli said:
You think people just sit there and do nothing? :wtf They're there for the wifi. Not everyone has an unlimited data plan and an office in every city to sit down in. :rolleyes
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I guess if you are traveling on business I could see it. Still seems super lame to take up space for hours in a business that you aren't patronizing.
 
TylerW said:
Also I'm quite sure that Starbucks makes money, or receives some other fungible benefit from people using their wifi.

Otherwise they wouldn't offer it. They're a business, not a kind-hearted neighbor willing to offer you a cup of sugar.
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The % of couch campers vs paying customers is small enough that Starbucks is making $$$. This means that when you pay $5 for that drink you're subsidizing this guy :laughing

ZUBP54m.jpg
 
TylerW said:
Also I'm quite sure that Starbucks makes money, or receives some other fungible benefit from people using their wifi.

Otherwise they wouldn't offer it. They're a business, not a kind-hearted neighbor willing to offer you a cup of sugar.
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I'm willing to bet wifi service is a cost to them. Maybe they've worked a deal where it's cost neutral. But the main benefit is bringing in repeat customers who purchase overpriced coffee products. I'll bet wifi increases sales.

nbean16 said:
I guess if you are traveling on business I could see it. Still seems super lame to take up space for hours in a business that you aren't patronizing.
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Yeah, I'd feel obligated to purchase something, even if it was just one drink I nursed for hours.
 
bojangle said:
I'm willing to bet wifi service is a cost to them. Maybe they've worked a deal where it's cost neutral. But the main benefit is bringing in repeat customers who purchase overpriced coffee products. I'll bet wifi increases sales.



Yeah, I'd feel obligated to purchase something, even if it was just one drink I nursed for hours.
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You're on their wifi, presumably you're agreeing to some TOS where they can track everything you do. They could then turn around and sell all that data they've mined.

Not sure if this happens, but I'd be surprised if it didn't.

EDIT: Everyone should have a VPN.
 
bojangle said:
I'm willing to bet wifi service is a cost to them. Maybe they've worked a deal where it's cost neutral. But the main benefit is bringing in repeat customers who purchase overpriced coffee products. I'll bet wifi increases sales.
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They also get the personal info that an individual signs in with, and also gets the data of the sites the users spend their time on while using the free wifi. I don't think that you can sustain a business on that, but the company surely gets more benefit from it than they do from people walking by and not being a patron. If that were they case, they wouldn't have a seating area. There's plenty of successful coffee companies that only offer coffee, not comfort.
 
Schnellbandit said:
Give the guys their $50K plus the Jackson-Sharpton stipend and put it to rest.

Give the manager a hush slush of $150k for throwing them under the bus for doing what regional execs wanted to have happen and announce the training session solved the miscommunication problem.
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Evidently there was an interview with the manager several days back.

And yes, when I had restaurants, managers indeed they were threatened at times.

I can see why they might take actions to avoid being threatened while enforcing a company policy.

We did have up NO LOITERING signs, not sure if S'bucks does.

But calling the cops for loitering was certainly NOT our policy and we didn't heavily enforce loitering enough to make our managers feel it was a huge priority if there was no disruption involved.


"Christopher Norris, a reporter with TechBook Online, a local Philadelphia news site, interviewed Hylton.

He wrote, “Holly told me that she doesn’t inform the customers that she’ll be calling the police.” To which Norris responded: “Everyone deserves a warning.”

Hylton, who didn’t give Norris her last name, told him that during her time working the Starbucks at 18th & Spruce Street over the past year she has dealt with many individuals “who loiter in the cafe with no intentions of purchasing.”

Norris wrote, “at least one of those persons, she claims, chased her around the store after she asked them to leave.”

He added, “According to Holly – who grew visibly flustered during my unrelenting questioning – a corporate policy germane exclusively to Center City Philadelphia locations prohibits excessive loitering. And if that policy is violated, then management has the discretion to ensure it’s enforced, even if it means calling the police"



https://heavy.com/news/2018/04/holly-hylton-racist-philadelphia-starbucks-manager/

https://apple.news/AYlFb6RSpTIiXQFxA6xn6GA
 
Maybe Starbucks needs to install meters on the tables. Where a public shaming light flickers on after you've expired a reasonable amount of loitering time and become a drain on the business.
Buy another drink and the clock gets reset.
 
295566 said:
You're on their wifi, presumably you're agreeing to some TOS where they can track everything you do. They could then turn around and sell all that data they've mined.

Not sure if this happens, but I'd be surprised if it didn't.

EDIT: Everyone should have a VPN.
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Why do you think Google partnered with them for wifi

And also why do you think *bucks now requires your name and email address (but fortunately you can just give them a fake one)
 
Blankpage said:
Maybe Starbucks needs to install meters on the tables. Where a public shaming light flickers on after you've expired a reasonable amount of loitering time and become a drain on the business.
Buy another drink and the clock gets reset.
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Actually not a bad policy to come out of this. I'm sure some people will balk at a structure as rigid as this, but it's the lazziez-faire enforcement of store policy that's presently in place is what allows store manager's own personal biases to play a role in how these policies are enacted.
 
TylerW said:
Actually not a bad policy to come out of this. I'm sure some people will balk at a structure as rigid as this, but it's the lazziez-faire enforcement of store policy that's presently in place is what allows store manager's own personal biases to play a role in how these policies are enacted.
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Plus you give people a foot and they'll take a mile. There are always those who will ruin it for others.
 
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