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So, you turn diving down to the Titanic into a tourist business..what could go wrong?

I just ran across this video today. It is from a man who had the opportunity to go a couple of weeks before the ill-fated mission.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-8U08yJlb8&t=50s

I watched that video the other day and rewatched it last night. His hindsight narration is pretty impressive. It really goes to show the naivety of those ticket holders. I imagine at least 3 of Titan's passengers were conned by Stockton Rush's confidence in his toy.

So many red flags:
The towing rig for the submersible appears to be a Coast Guard violation if it were in US waters.
The vessel had tangled in a ghost net prior to this expedition and was being sorted out last minute at sea rather than in harbor.
The overall condition of the "Polar Prince" is one of neglect.
The non shippy stowage of basic pantry and gally items while underway.
The repeated communication errors.
The mess of external cabling flopping around present tangling danger.

There is so much more, and I only worked around unmanned submersibles briefly.
 
The question is why the Coast Guard let the charade go on for so long after knowing that the sub had imploded. The Navy was unlikely to give nearly as much information as they knew, for national security purposes, but it sounds like they gave sufficient information to know that there was not going to be survivors and it was apparently given very quickly.

The Coast Guard sat on that information. Even to allowing the story to go out about a knocking sound.

Why give hope when there was absolutely zero chance of there being hope?

The answer is in your statement: national security. "We're pretty sure we heard something over there somewhere" doesn't convey as much information about our capabilities as ""We can say with 100% confidence that the Titan imploded in this location."
 
more unconfirmed info from James Cameron: the sub notified the surface that they were dropping the landing gear or whatever it's called signifying an emergency situation heading toward the surface. it's not hard to guess at that point they knew the thing was about to fail. this would explain why the landing carriage thing is fairly intact in the images of the wreckage. had it been attached to the sub at the time of implosion it would have been twisted up and mangled at minimum

earlier i'd mentioned that previous passengers probably heard pops and bangs (and lived)

if mr cameron's info is true it seems that these passengers also heard the pops and bangs and had time to consider what might happen. horrifying.

[YOUTUBE]5XIyin68vEE[/YOUTUBE]


Has there been any explanation on why the US Navy didn't release the info that they heard the Titan implosion right after it happened? Why wait the entire theoretical air supply time period and keep everyone in anticipation?

Is it possible they didn't hear it and are feigning abilities we don't have?

the USN isn't a PR firm. they notified the proper authorities asap and that was the end of their scope. why the rest of the gang didn't mention it i have no clue.
 
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The question is why the Coast Guard let the charade go on for so long after knowing that the sub had imploded. The Navy was unlikely to give nearly as much information as they knew, for national security purposes, but it sounds like they gave sufficient information to know that there was not going to be survivors and it was apparently given very quickly.

The Coast Guard sat on that information. Even to allowing the story to go out about a knocking sound.

Why give hope when there was absolutely zero chance of there being hope?

I dunno, it seems very human-like behavior to not want to call it for certain until others had expended effort and you know they would have been second-guessed in perpetuity had they called it right away. I get the security argument to a point but now we all know they picked it up and do have that capability. But that was my red flag to begin with, knowing how we live in the highest state of geo-surveillance thus far. I didn’t buy that they couldn’t find some kind of sonar sig in that immediate area to begin with because its so trafficked. As a species, we want the search effort, even at the costs, even while the informed officials knew damn well what had happened. Had that vessel had some kind of escape apparatus, well, it would have cast a shadow of doubt of some kind of near-surface escape but they couldn’t even get the thing open from the inside which still gives me the chills.
I don’t know if we can legally stop this kind of stupidity but I sure hope so. Ocean’sGate should be defunct.
 
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The answer is in your statement: national security. "We're pretty sure we heard something over there somewhere" doesn't convey as much information about our capabilities as ""We can say with 100% confidence that the Titan imploded in this location."
In the early reports that I heard, they told them that a noise sounding like an implosion (they would have known for certain, but wouldn't say) occured in the region.

Am I wrong in that perception?
 
In the early reports that I heard, they told them that a noise sounding like an implosion (they would have known for certain, but wouldn't say) occured in the region.

Am I wrong in that perception?

You are correct. Maybe I misunderstood your comment.
 
Don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't want to bet my life on what someone heard. I think that's fundamentally why the search went on until the found wreckage.

Between what the mother ship knew about the sub dropping weights, the loss on comm and nav and whatever the USN shared with the Coast Guard, they probably very much expected the worst. They arguably placed a greater value on life than Stockton Rush did, so they kept looking until they found the wreck.
 
The idea that there were very obvious audible signs to the pilot and passengers that it was time to get up, and fast, is haunting.

Horrifying.
 
skip to ~7 miuntes for info on the us navy's listening system which was declassified in the 1990s apparently. cold war tech

[YOUTUBE]gUkmGEeAcOw[/YOUTUBE]
 
The idea that there were very obvious audible signs to the pilot and passengers that it was time to get up, and fast, is haunting.

Horrifying.

per the comments section on a youtybe video [suspect source]previous Titan submersible survivors did in fact hear pops and bangs from the sub[/suspect source]
 
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
 
I've always had problems with design prints when designer and checker are the same initials.

Been in maritime mfg before, insane to see what the normal industry does - crazy over tolerancing the design, all the way to billionaires just disregarding everything everyone says and just make it and drop it in the sea and go....
 
deepsearch-300x187.jpg


Copy and pasted from DOER's website. I suspect this was written in 2021 or earlier as a response to Stockton Rush and Titan.


Recently there have been a flurry of new reports and renewed interest in the so called “Race to the Marinas Trench”- Challenger Deep.
The program that DOER is pursuing with Sylvia Earle’s SEAlliance, and with research funding provided by Eric Schmidt’s Marine Science Technology Foundation, is called Deepsearch. It is not an experiment or stunt – it is a comprehensive program including the build of two full ocean depth, classed submersibles, the testing infrastructure to support them, along with other deep water equipment testing, and a glass research/development program.
The budget of 40M is for the implementation of the overall program, not just the build of the Deepsearch submersible. Reports that the Deepsearch submersible is 3x as expensive as other designs are inaccurate. The overall program stands to broadly benefit all current research submersibles, experimental craft, landers, ROVs and AUVs through the work DOER is conducting with glass, batteries, floatation, diving profiles, and human factors. The Deepsearch vehicle itself is a scientific platform allowing direct human observation throughout the water column. Because no drop weights are used in normal diving operations, the craft has the ability to stop, hover, transit, sample and perform tasks at any depth one chooses.
A second craft, Ocean Explorer, leverages DOER’s years of subsea experience and the research completed for Deepsearch. The two designs share many common sub assemblies including proven commercial off the shelf and modified off the shelf components. DOER’s Ocean Explorer HOV 1000 replaces the assets recently lost to the scientific community with the retirement of the Johnson Sea Links. The Ocean Explorer HOV Unlimited is a deeper version which will utilize the same glass technology as Deepsearch. While it could achieve full ocean depth, it is primarily intended as a more practical option for depths up to 5000m. Where both Deepsearch and Ocean Explorer can stop, hover, work, and sample, the Deepsearch is designed to transit to very deep working depths quickly, allowing for extended bottom time. Ocean Explorer is better suited for hovering and working around pinnacles, walls, and functioning as an “underwater blind” granting scientists the gift of time at depth – the same way a terrestrial biologist might sit and observe on land.
The fact is that humans have been to the deepest point before and with a great deal less risk than we are seeing in this so called race to the Marianas Trench. If there is a race, it is a race to be the third man. The achievements of Don Walsh, Jacques Piccard and their Trieste team in 1960 were and are monumental feats of engineering. That craft went on to make multiple dives in service to the US Navy. Today we have great advances in materials, testing, computer analysis and more that can be systematically brought to bear in solving the problem of direct human access to the deep ocean, optimizing proven methods and assuring the safety of new materials. The Chinese have taken this approach with their new 7000m rated submersible and given the vast number of hours that have been logged by Jim Cameron in deep water submersibles, many surmise that his team’s approach might be similar. The key is that it takes a team of dedicated professionals including engineers, scientists, technicians, offshore operations, logistics, communications, and IT specialists, import/export experts, and yes, even accountants to pull off the successful design, build and operation of any deep ocean vehicle. It is never about one man.
The process of classing and peer review is another area where the Deepsearch Program is fundamentally different from experimental submersibles. There is much to be learned from experimentation; remarkable breakthroughs have been had via the ” let’s just do it” philosophy inventors sometimes embrace. Yet unless that information is shared and leveraged, it will always be limited in value. By engaging with a peer review body such as Lloyds, ABS, or GL, sub sea vehicles become inherently safer through the discipline of testing, record keeping and safety protocols. Even an experimental craft can be built to meet the intent of class which helps pave the way when a classed build is undertaken. Deepsearch and Ocean Explorer are both classed builds.
The goal of Deepsearch and the larger Deepsearch program is to become a world asset. Because the Deepsearch Program is funded by philanthropic gifts to the SEAlliance www.thesealliance.org, it provides a way for anyone to contribute to the Deepsearch program. Be they billionaires or arm chair explorers, all have the opportunity to be a part of Deepsearch and to make a difference.
DOER’s objectives are to honor the past work of others, leverage the advances of the past fifty years, and work to collaborate with others. Already, others are capitalizing on the Deepsearch glass research program as they pursue their own paths. We will observe and learn from these results then apply those lessons.
The SEAlliance is working as well to preserve large areas of ocean as a “blue bank account” assuring protection from destructive, extractive processes and providing hope for the restoration of now depleted fisheries, damaged coral reefs and ravaged sea floors. Science platforms such as Deepsearch and Ocean Explorer allow direct human observation and understanding of these vast unexplored areas. These platforms are complemented by ROVs, AUVs, ocean observing systems and landers, which, while some consider to be safer options, are no substitute for direct human observation. It is the difference between dining at a fine restaurant and watching the same meal being served on television.
The Deepsearch build time line is fluid as it is not a for profit undertaking. Rather, it is a for knowledge undertaking funded through philanthropy and implemented by a passionate team of scientists, engineers, explorers and subsea specialists. We invite you to join the team.
For more information about Deepsearch and the Deepsearch Program, please contact Liz Taylor, President DOER Marine at 510-530-9388 or via email, Liz@doermarine.com
 
per the comments section on a youtybe video [suspect source]previous Titan submersible survivors did in fact hear pops and bangs from the sub[/suspect source]
Pressure hulls on Navy Submarines commonly had popping sounds as they changed depths. The difference is that those were steel hulls and that was due to metal deformation as the pressure increased.
 
Experimental aircraft have to, by regulation, have a large placard stating that the aircraft is experimental. You knowingly assume the risk when you fly in an experimental aircraft. I wonder if the passengers were made aware that the submersible was not certified or that the build was experimental and had never been used before.
 
James Cameron just said it best: "Now there's a wreck lying next to another wreck for the same damn reason."
 
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