The question...... (How to decrease motorcycle fatalities)

[sammyman]

One statistic from my recent MSF class said that 44% of the fatal biker accidents involved alcohol. Seems to be true with stats from San Jose. I guess the easiest way to prevent fatalities is to neuter anyone drinking and riding.

 

[NorCal Factory]

Looking at the causes of crashes in this area may be somewhat helpfull, but the major reasons are easily identifyable. Any training class can address most of the reasons for crashes.

The best training is like Doc does - a series of events combining classroom instruction followed by on the road riding where you focus on 1-2 things. Most people don't invest the time to do that.

I believe that while riding skills training can help, the best way to reduce accidents and deaths is focus on what is going on between the ears. After all, if you are able to recognise that you have limited skills and you avoid heavy traffic, mtn roads, bad weather, riding supersport bikes, etc you will be able to develop the skills and ride within your limits.

Defensive riding, riding within your limits, choosing where and when to ride, what kind of bike to ride for your needs and skill level, who you ride with, the consquenses of crashing and other things can be tought in a web based or classroom environment.

To avoid legislation, I would like to see insurance companies offer substantial discounts to complete a series of training courses. The discounts would be offset by increased rates for those who are in the high risk groups and eventually - a reduction in payouts. Let capitalisim solve the problem - don't depend on legislation.

That said, I am still an advocate for DMV legislation limiting the HP of bikes that kids under 21 or 23 can buy or ride.

 

[serazin]

How about applying that tiered licensing to drivers?

The politicians who try that will be voted out of office so fast they will wonder what happened.

 

[Joebar4000]

The politicians who try that will be voted out of office so fast they will wonder what happened.

Sad but true.

They kinda have it already, but it's not much (here) - what is it, car and 18-wheeler license?

Just as an FYI and cultural reference - and can't remember the exact numbers so don't go an Google it and tell me I'm wrong - but in the UK and I believe, most of Europe, you need a difference class of licence for heavier vehicles. I think most SUV's would be classed as 'Light Goods Vehicles', and require MUCH higher road tax and a much tougher test.

There isn't any kind of tiering like, no 20 year olds in M3s etc. but that's not much of an issue. Go to L.A. and giving your kid a 180mph sports-car seems the norm, and then they're all surprised that little Johnny wraps it round a tree at 100mph a month after getting it...

One thing I can't fathom, is people riding without an M1, and barely getting a slap on the wrist.

Rel, why is that? I mean, seriously, if someone isn't licensed, why aren't they carted off to chokey, at least overnight, and their vehicle impounded? I'm not talking about people with an M1 that's lapsed necessarily, but people who've never had an M1 endorsement.

 

[mookiera]

The politicians who try that will be voted out of office so fast they will wonder what happened.

Your facetious meter is broken. Of course they would never do it. That's my point. They won't mandate tiered licensing for drivers and I don't want them to do it to me, either.
I don't claim to be a better than average rider and I will probably never do
trackdays, but I continually work on improving my skills, and I don't eat, drink, phone, text, put on makeup or yell @ my kids while riding.
I know I am a better rider than most drivers.
I don't want more regulations, increased scrutiny and threats of increased fines when I ride.
Am I alone in this?

 

[ThinkFast]

Kinda old (May2008) - have you seen it?

Sorry if this is a repost - it's from a brainstorming session the CHP did to come up with ideas for improving motorcycle safety. No one is saying any of this is going to happen, so don't get too excited. Interesting to see what they're thinking about tho.

 

[masameet]

CHECK THIS SITE OUT, REL!

Click!

A Pashnitter from England offered it up today. He's still reeling from witnessing a rider die during the recent California bike trip he and his wife took.

And yup. It's basically my idea but thought out sooner. And I don't see a date on the poster or brochure. But there's a contact number and email addy.

 

[masameet]

Here's the poster:

 

[brichter]

It also appears that they are not in favor of lane sharing and would approve of restricting or eliminating its legality.

I didn't see that. I did see this:
GROUP B: SPEED, RIGHT-OF-WAY, AND IMPROPER TURNING
ACTION ITEMS
Education/Marketing/Outreach
3. Lane splitting/sharing education.


Other

2. Definitive regulations for lane splitting.

Looks like they want more than just "safe and prudent manner" from the CHP. They want it spelled out what is and isn't legal. I'm not so sure I disagree with that, as I see some riders that take it to extremes, i.e. rider's delta is 10 mph when traffic on 85 is doing 85 mph (so they're at 95), or when the rider's actual speed is 30-35 mph and traffic is dead stop or crawling.

 

[mookiera]

...I see some riders that take it to extremes, i.e. rider's delta is 10 mph when traffic on 85 is doing 85 mph (so they're at 95), or when the rider's actual speed is 30-35 mph and traffic is dead stop or crawling.

Please,
We don't need another law for this. It is already a citable offense.

 

[brichter]

Please,
We don't need another law for this. It is already a citable offense.

I didn't say we needed another law.

<edit>

And neither did the article posted.

 

[mookiera]

I didn't say we needed another law.

<edit>

And neither did the article posted.

What do you call this? Aren't regulations laws?

2. Definitive regulations for lane splitting.

 

[brichter]

What do you call this? Aren't regulations laws?

2. Definitive regulations for lane splitting.

Just because something is regulated doesn't mean it's illegal.

What doesn't exist is a description of what is and isn't legal. There used to be "guidelines" on the CHP website, now it only states "Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner." That's pretty vague, and open to a lot of different interpretations.

 

[Enchanter]

Just because something is regulated doesn't mean it's illegal.

No, but doing it any other way will be illegal.

What doesn't exist is a description of what is and isn't legal. There used to be "guidelines" on the CHP website, now it only states "Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner." That's pretty vague, and open to a lot of different interpretations.

There are a multitude of laws that address what is illeagal when it comes to lane sharing the wrong way. We don't need any more.

 

[Cycle61]

I attended a Doc Wong class and not only did he (and the other instructors) instruct us about body position--which was a big help, but he also said some things I will never forget.

"You can consider that for every crash, you got away with a mistake 99 times before it." Meaning that a crash = 100 times you have blown it. Do not take crashes lightly.

"If you are scaring yourself, there is a good reason for it. Slow down, and ride less aggressively."

Thanks Doc!

I would love to see a huge increase in the amount of training available, and required, for people to operate a vehicle on public roadways. Tiered licensing, much more stringent testing standards, minimum age/experience for certain classes of vehicles.

It's true of both bikes and cages. Everybody tells new riders "you're gonna drop your bike at least once"
Everybody says that most teenagers will total at least a car or two while they're learning. Better that the bike is a 150 that weighs 100lbs and goes 35, or that the car is a 1972 Honda CVCC instead of a literbike or a BMW M3 at 150mph.
I totaled a few cars, I crashed my bike a few times, and I'm damn glad I wasn't damaged in the process.

 

[Brown81]

CHECK THIS SITE OUT, REL!

Click!

A Pashnitter from England offered it up today. He's still reeling from witnessing a rider die during the recent California bike trip he and his wife took.

And yup. It's basically my idea but thought out sooner. And I don't see a date on the poster or brochure. But there's a contact number and email addy.

Well, a couple items really jump out:

1. Departmental motorcycle safety checkpoints.

2. Increase point values for motorcycle hazard citations (i.e., commercial vehicles).


Looks more like an attempt to generate more revenue to me, but nicely shrouded by the facade of "safety". Imo, they were on the right track with rider education, but then had to give themselves more power.
Imo, they have plenty of power already to site dangerous/unsafe riders under one of any of the multitude of current laws. I couldn't support anything like that around here. But there are some good points.

 

[Coffae]

Oh... I know, I know! [raises hand]

Let's get some volunteers to research the myriad of rich ideas from the threads here on BARF. We can pick areas of interest such as crash analysis and trend how accidents happen. Someone can do how to handle different road conditions. Another top safety riding techniques. Riding gear. Data. Night riding. Track. Bike handling... you name the rest.

We could write a BARFers manual for riding.

We could even have a section for scaring the living daylights out of peeps.

I would be happy to compile one of the list such as riding tips (I started collecting these a while ago.)
arty

 

[brichter]

No, but doing it any other way will be illegal.

It works both ways. If there are definitions of what is legal, doing it that way will be legal, not left open to widely varying interpretations.

There are a multitude of laws that address what is illeagal when it comes to lane sharing the wrong way. We don't need any more.

Please link the relevant VC sections concerning max speed for lane sharing and max delta speed for lane sharing.

 

[cardinal03]

Without passing new legislation, my suggestion would be:

1) Major, massive, zero tolerance crackdown on drunk driving/riding.
2) Major, massive, zero tolerance crackdown on illegal modifications, cruisers AND sprotbiles (illegal signals, pipes, illegally mounted plates, etc..)

I know #2 won't win me any popularity contests, but it's equivalent to the "quality-of-life-crimes" campaign Giuliani used to clean up NY. When it's so much of a hassle to have a modified bike that you can't ride it, maybe people stop thinking what makes you cool is how many parts you have out of the LP catalog, and they start thinking that what makes you cool is being a skilled motorcycle operator and getting home alive. Maybe they stop thinking what makes you cool is hanging out at Starbucks showing off your bike bling, and they start thinking what makes you cool is running laps at the track and learning the ins-and-outs of their machines.

Just my $.02, flame suit on.

 

[Rel]

The truth never does.....

I know #2 won't win me any popularity contests....