Best performance tires for street use

[Archimedes]

I don't think that is what most people are saying. What I like about ST tires is the fact that they actually provide MORE grip in many real world riding scenarios. Cold, wet conditions? ST tires are better. Sport tires are not sticky unless you get enough heat into them, which is not always easy or safe to do on the street.

Totally agree on the wet condition argument. But I think the 'you can't get enough heat into them on the street' is largely BS. Not only can you flex the tire enough in sport riding situation around here to get heat in them, they don't have to get fully up to temp to offer more dry grip than the average ST tire. A dead cold set of SC2s or SPs has more dry grip than a warm set of PR3s, based on my personal experience with both.

If a DOT race tire offers no grip cold, how come I can put a fresh unscrubbed set on my bike, ride onto the track and first lap out ride harder than I would ever on the street? I'm obviously not up to full pace on that out lap, but I'm pushing it at least as hard or harder than I would on the street, getting to full lean angles and the tire sticks like glue.

 

[Gary856]

Running these on the multistrada 1100 right now and they have been great. Haven't noticed them as better or worse than the PR2s I had on there previously, which is a reasonable endorsement. Haven't had them long enough to make a judgement on wear and haven't really pushed them to their edge, but took them close on a damp saturday a few weeks ago and they never worried me.

Based on my experience with the S20s, I'd really like to try the T30s when the 23s are done.

I'm at 6k mi with a set of BT-023 on my Multistrada 1000DS. Like them. Looks like the rear will need to be replaced by 6.5k mi; the front can go to 9k mi or so. I plan to try the T30 next.

I put on about 17k miles on my last set before it started to cord, and mind you my bike is my daily driver.

With that kind of tire mileage, I'll bet you're not riding a big twin like the Multistrada.

 

[Lunch Box]

If a DOT race tire offers no grip cold, how come I can put a fresh unscrubbed set on my bike, ride onto the track and first lap out ride harder than I would ever on the street? I'm obviously not up to full pace on that out lap, but I'm pushing it at least as hard or harder than I would on the street, getting to full lean angles and the tire sticks like glue.

I simply meant that you can't get to the optimal running temp for those tires on the street without riding like a madman. Also, you could do the same thing on your out lap with an ST tire with the same results (I've done it at solid A-pace). The tire simply has plenty of grip.

The ST tire works well at cooler temperatures, which is part of what makes it good for the street. After a few really hard laps on a track, the ST tire will start to get a bit greasy. That's where the DOT race tire really shines. It just gets more and more sticky, and goes off much more slowly and predictably.

Again, I'm talking about modern ST tires, which are arguably more sticky than DOT race tires from as recently as 8-10 years ago. Tire tech really has come a long way.

 

[Diezel]

If a DOT race tire offers no grip cold, how come I can put a fresh unscrubbed set on my bike, ride onto the track and first lap out ride harder than I would ever on the street? I'm obviously not up to full pace on that out lap, but I'm pushing it at least as hard or harder than I would on the street, getting to full lean angles and the tire sticks like glue.

I guess you must know something that even the highest paid Pro's don't then. Even the pro's use tire warmers......

 

[KnifeySpoony]

I guess you must know something that even the highest paid Pro's don't then. Even the pro's use tire warmers......

not sure if trollling

 

[Archimedes]

Again, I'm talking about modern ST tires, which are arguably more sticky than DOT race tires from as recently as 8-10 years ago. Tire tech really has come a long way.

I keep hearing that but I can spin up and slide the rear PR3 on my T all day, and the front feels like its squirming and searching for grip when taxed, while 15 years ago I would tear around on D207GPs dragging knees in the hills and never get slide one.

I still think at a spirited street pace in the dry, an SC2 is going to have more outright grip than a ST tire like a PR3, and it's going to have a much better profile for sport riding. You may never get it fully up to temp or achieve the grip levels you can get on the track, but I've never seen any evidence that it's still not better than an ST tire in those conditions for that type of riding.

I get why people wouldn't want to do a DOT race tire on the street due to its narrow band of usage and lack of durability, but I don't buy the 'ST tire will grip better' argument at all. It's one of those Internet myths that just keeps getting parroted over and over until everyone thinks its gospel.

 

[Archimedes]

I guess you must know something that even the highest paid Pro's don't then. Even the pro's use tire warmers......

Not sure if serious or retarded. You do know why the pros use warmers don't you?

My point was, a relatively cold DOT race tire still has plenty of grip. I wasn't insinuating that it had the same grip level as it does when fully up to temp.

 

[NTron3000]

For me the outright grip of a tire is not my barometer for how well I like a tire. Feedback and feel are much more a consideration with the longevity/performance tradeoff for me. As has been mentioned by one or two of you modern ST tires have phenomenal amounts of grip that I have rarely ridden past. But the few times I have it was an abrupt slip. As your tires get more focussed you get more feel. But you also lose wet capability and longevity.

My favorite street tire, in terms of feel, that I've ran has been the S20. Great feel and predictable and even some wet capability. With them I knew where the grip was so much more so I was more confident pushing them. Disappointing lifespan though. I think I got 3k M out of them. I do to much daily commuting. If I was only doing fun rides in them thar hills I'd probably still be on 'em.

 

[Diezel]

My point was, a relatively cold DOT race tire still has plenty of grip. I wasn't insinuating that it had the same grip level as it does when fully up to temp.

Might wanna re-read what you wrote. You absolutely claimed it had amazing grip out of the gate COLD. You made no mention in comparison to it being warmed up. That aside, I was just pulling your damn leg. But since you want to get all in a huff about it.....

What a couple of people are debating about is the fact that ST tires have come far enough tech wise, to be viable on a sport bike for street use. Note that I'm not saying run spiritedly up 9, etc.

While Michelin claims we shouldn't do it, it has been done, and does indeed seem viable. Would you catch me running them on a track day. God no, I'm not fucking stupid.

Using the best DOT tires on a trackbike is something that even some of the manufactures are claiming "it's best you don't do that, but it can be done" as well. Even that is a point that can be argued.

http://199.73.57.203/dealer/downloads/charts/sport_comparo.jpg

For me the outright grip of a tire is not my barometer for how well I like a tire. Feedback and feel are much more a consideration with the longevity/performance tradeoff for me.

Agreed! I came off a set of Diablo's on my 1k. I thought they were down right fucking GARBAGE. Squirmy as fuck, completely unpredictable, horrible road feel, bike handled like a damn tractor. I tried out a set of Pilot 2CT's. Killed those in a hurry, and at the very end noticed the same "tractor handling". Which I've learned is the 1k's way of telling me, hey dude, tire is old and shouldered. Get rid of it.

The 2CT's were great, but didn't last long. Since I have little interest in killing myself running up 9, 35, etc at full A-Pace. A set of ST tires that are closer to sport oriented, will work great for me and give me good mileage. Not to mention a bit of a cushion be it I decide to ride in the rain for some dumb ass reason.

 

[redruM]

I had enough pucker moments with PR2/3s during spirited cornering to finally say adios to ST for good. I'll take the confidence I get from PP3/s20s over longer tread life all day long.

 

[Banjoboy]

I like the BT-023, mainly because i commute from Brentwood to Santa Clara every damn day...

Running these on the multistrada 1100 right now and they have been great. Haven't noticed them as better or worse than the PR2s I had on there previously, which is a reasonable endorsement. Haven't had them long enough to make a judgement on wear and haven't really pushed them to their edge, but took them close on a damp saturday a few weeks ago and they never worried me.

Based on my experience with the S20s, I'd really like to try the T30s when the 23s are done.

I didn't like the 020s, or 021s, but mah (used) FJR dun came w/ 023s and they seem just as good as PRIIs wet or dry; maybe bettah?

I put on about 17k miles on my last set before it started to cord, and mind you my bike is my daily driver.

On T30s?
I just ordered me set of "GT spec" T30s from AMT and they'z only $224 fer the set! arty

I simply meant that you can't get to the optimal running temp for those tires on the street without riding like a madman. Also, you could do the same thing on your out lap with an ST tire with the same results (I've done it at solid A-pace). The tire simply has plenty of grip.

The ST tire works well at cooler temperatures, which is part of what makes it good for the street. After a few really hard laps on a track, the ST tire will start to get a bit greasy. That's where the DOT race tire really shines. It just gets more and more sticky, and goes off much more slowly and predictably.

Again, I'm talking about modern ST tires, which are arguably more sticky than DOT race tires from as recently as 8-10 years ago. Tire tech really has come a long way.

Wut do you know, you ride a Wee Strom!

 

[Lunch Box]

So much fun in this thread.

Archimedes: I still maintain that an ST tire provides more consistent grip in "real world" riding. Where I ride, there are almost always damp patches here and there. When I'm on the street, I don't push the pace to the point where the added grip of a DOT race tire would be a significant advantage (plus, it's kind of fun to slide a little here and there). Again, a reasonably warm DOT race tire will have more grip on dry, clean pavement than an ST tire. I don't think that too many folks would argue that. My point is that for most "real world" riding, the ST tire is almost as good, and in many cases it is better; Cold weather or wet pavement, for example.

I think that we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Banjoboy: I haven't always ridden a wee-strom.

 

[Archimedes]

Might wanna re-read what you wrote. You absolutely claimed it had amazing grip out of the gate COLD. You made no mention in comparison to it being warmed up.

Dude I really think you need to work on reading comprehension. I said that I could ride harder than I do on the street on a cold DOT race tire on that out lap and the tire gripped fine every time. And trust me, I'm not alone in that. Every session a dozen guys without warmers on roll out on track with cold DOT race or SP street tires and run pretty hard that first lap, again relative to street speeds.

 

[Archimedes]

So much fun in this thread.

Archimedes: I still maintain that an ST tire provides more consistent grip in "real world" riding. Where I ride, there are almost always damp patches here and there. When I'm on the street, I don't push the pace to the point where the added grip of a DOT race tire would be a significant advantage (plus, it's kind of fun to slide a little here and there). Again, a reasonably warm DOT race tire will have more grip on dry, clean pavement than an ST tire. I don't think that too many folks would argue that. My point is that for most "real world" riding, the ST tire is almost as good, and in many cases it is better; Cold weather or wet pavement, for example.

I think that we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I don't think we're disagreeing at all. I agree with everything you said above. I would never run a DOT race tire on a bike being used for all weather, all around riding. I just think, for those riders who purely sport ride in the dry, there's really nothing wrong with running an SP or DOT race tire on the street. And in those conditions, the argument that you get less grip from a DOT race tire is just wrong.

All that said, I would never buy a new DOT race tire purely for street sporting use. I'd go with an SP.

 

[Lunch Box]

I think that you're right, Archimedes. I started trying the newer ST tires on my SuperDuke when I was unemployed a few years ago, to save a few bucks. I was astounded by the grip level. Sure, it wasn't as good as the sport tires I had been running, but it was quite impressive. Additionally, I went from replacing a rear at 1800-2000 miles to replacing it at 4000-6000. When unemployed and riding way too often, that was significant. The only issue I have with the ST tire (front, specifically) is that it doesn't seem to provide much feedback under heavy braking or hard-ish cornering.

 

[cleverusername]

so we are in violent agreement that:

- PR3 is the best tire to recommend if you don't know the exact specifics of someone else's needs, such as whether they are nice weather only types. or all times, all conditions, commute + twist, wet and/or dry.

- if they are just nice conditions riders and don't put on much mileage, then a sport tire intended for street use.

- for those that put on lots of miles and want max street grip and cleanest feedback, the decision point between the two is probably based on what your wallet can support.

- if on the track, track tires would make sense.

wow, that was a roundabout way to arrive at the same conculsion the tire manufacturers have been selling this whole time.

 

[Hooli]

I've had no issues w/the Pirelli Angel GT's.

 

[planegray]

.......... You do know why the pros use warmers don't you?.....................................

I don't really know why they use warmers.

I THINK it's to reduce the number of heat cycles and/or to eliminate the tire "warm up" when going back out on the track... but I'm not 100% sure on either one of those

 

[cleverusername]

I've had no issues w/the Pirelli Angel GT's.

that's because you put tire warmers on them. like all of do before hitting the street.

 

[unhinged]

Metzeler is coming with a new Sportec M7 RR tire that got a good review at MCN. I'm thinking of trying those or Q3 next.

These replace the M5. Anybody have experience with that? Internet search implied decent mileage.