Close one on Pinehurst - another effing M4M thread/rant

[Burning1]

then thats you, im not trying to make this all go away, I KNOW this won't go away, but if you don't believe what i say and what i took in consideration then i can't do anything about that. im not perfect, i make mistakes, you sound like you've never made a mistake, or EVER did anything to endanger someones life. everyone has done something, your the only one preceding an image that EVERYONE is on my back, then ok, go start another thread, this is the thread from kurt, who i am apologizing most to, and to every body else in the community, this is my last reply to you blind_io because i don't want this to escalate to anything more, believe what you believe don't try and get everyone else on your side, and stop trying to get attention. i said what i needed to say and i meant it. i will be up there this weekend on saturday if you have anything to say to me.

You can apologize until the cows come home, but the real test will be to see if you make a change in your driving habits -- and I mean a real, lasting change, not a vow, followed by a couple of months of good driving, and then a return to your ways.

DevineZ: This isn't a single incident, and you can't play it off as a moment of anger: doing so is disingenuous and insulting. You've made your impression on a lot of riders long before this thread was started -- just look at how many people came out of the woodwork to comment long before the videos were posted.

Here's is the last big thread about a driver going over the double yellow line. If you lose your driver's license over this then you should consider yourself extremely lucky because it could be a lot worse. The penalty for killing someone is a loss of your future: the resulting lawsuit will cost you far more than you're insured for. It'll cost you more than your first house.

Frankly, you should thank flying_hun: he was focusing on safety even when you were disregarding it -- and he saved both of your asses. I spend time on the roads up there, and I can't say with absolute certainty that I would have been able to do the same.

Listen, a lot of us ride those roads fast. Some of our members ride them much faster than you drive. I'm not asking you to slow down -- I'm asking you to change your habits. Learn to be fast without taking unnecessary risks. Go run the autocross course. Sign up for some trackdays. Take a Skip Barber racing class.

I appreciate the brass balls it must have taken to post here, but frankly reading your posts doesn't do anything to ease my mind. Save your apologies, and show that your sorry: talk to your crew about this. Learn to drive like a man. Stop driving like a boy who doesn't think anything bad is ever going to happen to him.

You have the opportunity to redeem yourself -- take it.

 

[tzrider]

Yes, I was taken out by a driver and I now have limited mobility in my arm for the rest of my life.

Io, sorry to have brought it up, but I thought he needed to hear that part of it. It's a real example of what he could be facing if he gets off easy.

 

[Desmodromic]

You've typed an awful lot of words in this thread. Personally, I don't believe most of them, but my opinion isn't worth any more (or any less) than anyone else's. So I'll just point out one flaw in your "logic", based on your own words below.



You're either blind, stupid, or lying if you believe what you typed above. Here's a link to the video (one that won't be deleted so easily), and you can review it yourself if you like. Right about 20 seconds in. The moron in the camera car (I assume it's you or one of your equally useless friends) cuts over the yellow around a blind corner, is surprised by a BMW, and only because the BMW panic brakes and has enough room to dart right is a head-on collision avoided. No, there was no crash. But if that oncoming driver was spooked, locked up their wheels, slid a bit left instead of right, the video would have had a much more exciting conclusion.

I sure want to believe you understand the seriousness of your asshattery, but somehow I just don't. I hope that when you do wreck the car, you A: don't harm anyone else in the process and B: your parents, who will be alerted to this thread one way or another, realize financing your "driving" isn't a smart use of their funds.

+1

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

Dave- I've had my life changed, drastically & severely, forever- due to the actions of one person, and it's a hard thing to live with. I'd like to think I can understand your fury. But you have a unique perspective that few people as young as Saki will have. It's most likely he has not had his life touched by tragedy or debilitating injuries... so that leaves a huge chasm that it's going to be difficult for him to bridge. The majority of us posting in this thread are older, and have some perspective, and a better understanding of exactly what you've had to live through- the consequences of stupidity, inattentiveness, and flat out negligent behavior. (please don't think I'm excusing his behavior... I'm sooooo not!! But in reading his posts, I really don't think he has the capacity to truly understand the magnitude of his behavior.. I hope I'm wrong...)
Hopefully, he's learning a valuable lesson that will help him make better choices. Maybe it will only be out of fear of being called out on the internet like he has over the last couple of days- but that's a start! And maybe other young, inexperienced drivers exhibiting this type of dangerous, douchy, stupid-ass behavior have seen the two threads (the one I started on the 350Z forum is sitting at somewhere around 3,600 views), and will think twice about crossing the DY.
It's a start...

 

[SurfAwave69]

You have the opportunity to redeem yourself -- take it.

Exactly...

 

[Blind_Io]

Io, sorry to have brought it up, but I thought he needed to hear that part of it. It's a real example of what he could be facing if he gets off easy.

No need to apologize. I'm glad you brought it up, actually. I'm a walking example of the damage that can be caused by even a "minor" motorcycle v. car encounter - even when the rider is in full armor. It only serves to illustrate the gravity of Z-Shithead's choices.

EDIT:

Dave- I've had my life changed, drastically & severely, forever- due to the actions of one person, and it's a hard thing to live with. I'd like to think I can understand your fury. But you have a unique perspective that few people as young as Saki will have. It's most likely he has not had his life touched by tragedy or debilitating injuries... so that leaves a huge chasm that it's going to be difficult for him to bridge. The majority of us posting in this thread are older, and have some perspective, and a better understanding of exactly what you've had to live through- the consequences of stupidity, inattentiveness, and flat out negligent behavior. (please don't think I'm excusing his behavior... I'm sooooo not!! But in reading his posts, I really don't think he has the capacity to truly understand the magnitude of his behavior.. I hope I'm wrong...)
Hopefully, he's learning a valuable lesson that will help him make better choices. Maybe it will only be out of fear of being called out on the internet like he has over the last couple of days- but that's a start! And maybe other young, inexperienced drivers exhibiting this type of dangerous, douchy, stupid-ass behavior have seen the two threads (the one I started on the 350Z forum is sitting at somewhere around 3,600 views), and will think twice about crossing the DY.
It's a start...

Connie, as always I appreciate your gentle wisdom, it's a nice counterpoint to my own, sometimes brutal approach. I know you are not excusing his behavior, but I get the impression that kind words and gentle persuasion will only serve to minimize the impact of the message.

Blind luck is the only reason Z-douchenozzle hasn't killed anyone yet, and that nearly ran out and it nearly cost a man his life. It nearly destroyed a family.

I have no tolerance and no inclination to sugar-coat it. I honestly think that dragging him out of his car for a beating would be a perfectly acceptable way of delivering the message.

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

No need to apologize. I'm glad you brought it up, actually. I'm a walking example of the damage that can be caused by even a "minor" motorcycle v. car encounter - even when the rider is in full armor. It only serves to illustrate the gravity of Z-Shithead's choices.

EDIT:


Connie, as always I appreciate your gentle wisdom, it's a nice counterpoint to my own, sometimes brutal approach. I know you are not excusing his behavior, but I get the impression that kind words and gentle persuasion will only serve to minimize the impact of the message.

Blind luck is the only reason Z-douchenozzle hasn't killed anyone yet, and that nearly ran out and it nearly cost a man his life. It nearly destroyed a family.

I have no tolerance and no inclination to sugar-coat it. I honestly think that dragging him out of his car for a beating would be a perfectly acceptable way of delivering the message.

Thank you for the kind words, Dave. And sometimes it takes a lot of different ways of communicating to get through to someone... and I think we can safely say I wasn't exactly "gentle" in the 350Z forum thread (which is now up 3,700 views!). I agree with you about the "blind luck"- you're 100% spot on with that. It's my sincere hope that he's got the wake-up call, and will start looking at things a little differently. Time will tell...

 

[Sidewalk]

Post videos of your events at the track, doing Auto-X or something and leave the backroads to sane spirited driving. I rarely ride the twisties anymore, but when I do I do not have the desire to haul ass since I have dedicated my efforts to the track. Trophies say a lot more about your driving/riding then Youtube videos.

 

[littlebeast]

divz - thanks for posting up here. restores a little bit of my hope that change is possible. for all of us. next time you're out there on the road, remember the rest of us who share it with you. we want to have fun, and get home safe too.

thanks again. good of you to deal with this.

 

[Cycle61]

+1 to the above comments to take it to the track. SRSLY, NCEC of SCCA shoud be able to procide you with a very high defggree of comretition without the asssociated risk f killing someone

AND NO ?i WON'T GET ONB S A BIKE RIGHT NOW i'M DRUNK AS HEELLLL,

 

[RedKawi]

AND NO ?i WON'T GET ONB S A BIKE RIGHT NOW i'M DRUNK AS HEELLLL,

 

[Gixxergirl1000]

+1 to the above comments to take it to the track. SRSLY, NCEC of SCCA shoud be able to procide you with a very high defggree of comretition without the asssociated risk f killing someone

AND NO ?i WON'T GET ONB S A BIKE RIGHT NOW i'M DRUNK AS HEELLLL,

ONick... Sweetie... put down the keyboard... and the beer...

 

[burman]

I wouldn't want to be the next owner of your car cuz I don't wanna get beat up by my fellow barfers
You better just get rid of that slow POS.

 

[sliverstorm]

I haven't been following this super-close, and I haven't watched all the videos, but I kinda get the impression you've got something you're trying to prove to the ladies.

Unfortunately, to a passenger who is not in control, it doesn't matter how in control you are (or think you are)- if it's terrifying to them, it's terrifying to them. I know when I drive at autox, body roll, tire slip and very light drifts are 99% under my thumb, and I feel totally safe and in control. When I let my friend drive my car, even though I know there's just cones, I wind up white-knuckling because in the passenger seat, it's a whole different game.

If your passenger, especially a girl, lets on that she is nervous or scared, driving at the same % or assuring her you're in control won't really do much to reassure her. Back off the throttle, and you will gain her confidence- or at least avoid raising her ire.

Besides, it's clear you have had your share of almost-crashes, and if she was nervous BEFORE you almost had a head-on with that truck, how confident do you think she'll be in your ability to keep her safe AFTER she stared death in the face with no way to protect herself?

We're guys. It's our job to respect, look out for and protect the ladies, not put them in danger when we try to impress them.

 

[flying_hun]

Okay, I've read all the way through this thread, some of the thread that Connie started on the Z forum, and I've read divz's posts.

First things first. To all my fellow BARF'ers, and a few in particular, thank you very much for the way you've all rallied here. Once again, BARF delivers.

Divz, I've read your apology/explanation/rationalization, and while it's nice that you've posted up, my feeling is that there's something missing.

I don't know what preceded my contact with you and that Miata, but I did see what happened in that corner. He didn't brake check you. He saw me - since we were in the same lane - got scared, and checked up. I saw the look on his face. He didn't hit the brakes all that hard. You must have already been closing pretty fast. Your explanation does not ring entirely true.

It's difficult to believe that our close call had much impact on you. Once I finally got turned around and caught up to you, you were in the midst of a big old doughnut at the turn off to Moraga. It seems like odd behavior for someone who might be concerned or rattled at the prospect of having nearly killed another person as the result of his own dangerous driving.

When I caught up to you again heading back south on Pinehurst, you were driving slowly, but appeared to ignore my best attempts to get your attention while at the same time talking on the cellphone. I followed you the length of Pinehurst twice. If you wanted to man up, this was the time to do it. It's difficult to believe that you did not know I was following you. What were you thinking?

The information that has shown up in this thread as a result of the good works of BARF detectives suggests that behavior I encountered is the norm, not the exception. This could suggest a couple of things, none of them complimentary to you. Either you are too immature to imagine the impact your choices can have on the lives of others, or you don't really care. With those inferences in mind, and Andy's questions to you in mind as well, tell us how you are going to change. Tell us what is motivating those changes. Tell us how we'll know. If you want to impress us, here's your chance.

Forgiveness is a wonderful thing. I have no intention of investing my life in hating you. Fortunately for me, I've got that choice, no thanks to you. I'm upright and breathing, not in the ground. I have the use of all my limbs and without pain or titanium hardware, unlike Dave. From me, forgiveness is cheap, but I still want to see you off the road.

Forgetting is another thing. Why would I forget? If you want me to forget, provide some new memories of Divz and his "crew" that would replace the ones I have now. Posting in a web forum is a start, but not exactly sufficient.

I can tell you one thing, the past three days I rode hundreds of miles of twisties, and my memory of you was present on every blind turn.

 

[Brokenlink]

 

[Twowheelmonkey]

Divz,
you should read this news article.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Mom-Sees-Daughter-Hit-Head-on-by-Racing-Car.html
Involves car racing on public roads, a crash, a four weeks old baby and the death of a mother. The driver that caused the accident is in jail. He lost control and crossed over onto oncoming traffic. This could have been you.

You still have time to change, your crew can learn from your incident and they have time to change.

Take care, Be smart and do the right thing.

 

[Brown81]

mcarb, why did you have to post that? After 25 years, the images from those Divine movies wer almost out of my head.




DivZ-
Well, I just hope you guys keep it in your lane. That road is in my back yard.

Last year. going up Mt. Hamilton I came upon a mini club drive or something. A line of like 15 minis coming down the hill. EVERY CAR was perfectly in their own lane, except for one:

A 350Z.

In my lane, cutting corners trying to keep up. Almost killed me. If it were my newb girlfriend, she'd be dead. And so would whoever was driving that fucking 350z. It only takes one moment of risk to kill an innocent person.

Nothing against 350z's, I'll just never forget that fucking car.

It only takes once man. I am glad you made the effort to clear this up, it shows a lot of balls for a young man. Most would try to get all tough guy about it. You obviously ain't stupid, just young and inexperienced.

Just keep in mind what would've happened had you killed our friend Flying Hun. He's a real decent guy, a very good rider, and has friends and family who love him. Had you hit him while "illegal street racing" (what the police would have called it and rightfully so) on the wrong side of a double yellow, your whole life would be over as you know it. Certainly, nobody would care what your excuses are. You think people want blood now? You'd just be fucked beyond imagination. Can you imagine having to explain this to your own family? Christ, what would your DAD have to say about these videos?

We'll see you out on Redwood. Keep it in your lane and let's all enjoy our road. Cages, bicycles, and motorcycles. We can all be friends, but just remember, bikes and motos are at your mercy!! We want to enjoy our love and passion for motorcycling without dying.

 

[Gnarly Cranium]

The driver that caused the accident is in jail. He lost control and crossed over onto oncoming traffic.

I wonder, did the car genuinely lose control, like it's careening off the road cause the driver totally lost traction and can't recover, or is that just the default phrase for anything that crosses the DY? DivZ for instance was basically in control of his vehicle, it wasn't spinning in circles or anything, but if he had hit Kurt would it be described later as 'lost control'?

 

[B-Cuz]

Some of these posts are crazy long, so I'll keep my thoughts to a minimum. Kurt, really glad you're alright buddy!

Divz, I'm taking the stance of remaining cautiously optimistic about your proclamations of "changing your ways." I have to agree with others that although you've made your pledge I don't think the full concept of consequences have settled in, but that is largely due in part to your age and mindset. I just hope you and your friends live up to what you've stated here.