Sears Point Turn One

[afm199]

As far as T10, I think it was Rocky Torres that had his GSXR launch onto Hwy121. That was crazy.

Yep, they brought it back to the pits in piles of parts. IIRC he walked away from it.

 

[JeffKoch]

One suggestion, that I made to Alex but I'll make here too: Move the start-finish line back towards T11. I remember when we ran this T1 before, the shut-off point for the very tight T1 was not very far past S/F, and race finishes could get sketchy - especially with slower bikes from other waves ahead who've already finished and are in cool-down lap mode. With bikes getting faster, it's going to be scary at times.

 

[dsapsis]

Thanks Dave, I'll get you that list...and invoices. I want you to know that it took years of therapy and nonpainful erotic massage.
I think the parts were $50, but the therapy is up to 50K and growing!

Hows that mojo shit work?
Mark, that was outta the park.
I just need to get (a lot) faster and the new T1 is gonna be sweet!
--dave, 870

 

[ZXR400SP]

Fortuniately the dirt area has been paved now Mark so, that part is definiately better.

If the aerial shot is accurate for the current configuration then they need more pavement on the right side of the curb as that is what the AMA was running and there were a lot of people running through the dirt last year. I guess I'll find out on Monday as ZZ plans to ruin it, I mean run it.

 

[khill]

I too liked the "old" turn 1. It was a difficult turn and when done correctly, was fun to get right. I also remember being bumped off the track, almost rear ending other riders and losing the front wondering what I was going to look like impaled into/onto something.

When we changed to the "new" turn 9, I didn't like it. I was good in the old turn and was mad it took a perceived advantage away. However, I knew the decision was correct for the club and rider safety. I believe this decision was correct based on the committe's visit and discussion with the track.


Ken

 

[ZXR400SP]

Is there any way possible to alter the AMA T1 so that it's not so much of a point and shoot turn but still reduces the speeds enough to make it safer. If the apex was moved 40-50 feet back towards start finish it would flow better and still reduce the speeds.

And +1 on moving the finish line closer to T11.

 

[ryanb]

Ha! That's a Zoom Zoom day. I can see Creech's and My 5th wheels. That was the dragstrip day last year (March?)

hah! that is indeed last march, I see my subaru parked next to Schwannie's X5. All I have left from that day is nostalgia

 

[KimDN]

I remember going to Sears Point for the first time thinking, "Man I don't want to crash in T9, that is death waiting to happen". Unfortunately it came true. I loved the old T9/T10 combo, but I would literally turn my head more in T9, just so I wouldn't look at that nasty impact area.

I've ridden both AMA and AFM T1. AMA is "not as fun" but so much safer IMO. I don't want to lose another friend in racing, and if I have to have one turn be just a little less "fun" for that cause, I'm all for it.

 

[675 Trip]

Why don't we just put limiters on all the bikes for a top speed of 90 and call it sunday driving instead of racing.

I guess we are all getting radiator guards because I have run AMA T1 a bunch of times and will apparently run it a bunch more and 9 out of 10 laps the guy in front is kicking rocks back.

It sure does make turn 2 a lot easier. guess I don't have to learn AFM T1 anymore. .

 

[jtigert]

I agree with Ken and Kim and the AMA turns are for the better. I also can remember those days in 9 and 1 when we had such an advantage hanging it out, but we need to think about safety, as a club we need to adopt as much saety as we can even at the displeasure of the majority.

 

[CykoKlr]

I think its great...... I am to new to racing to know a whole lot about safety (at my speeds).

But now I get to race two different tracks in two years in the same location.

I did get to run AMA T1 with Code and I thought it was cool.


Thank You!!!!!
To the safety committee for giving a F^&* and your time to this sport........

I hope to participate in this sport for along time and would like to give back also someday.

 

[scalvert]

IIRC, Jeff Frost on an SV650 hit the wall in T1 and got busted up bad.

Jeff was riding a 600 at the time. (I know cause I was the worker the bike would have killed without the NASCAR catch fence.) An SV650 is doing 30mph less than a 600 at the end of the straight where Jeff went down.

 

[scalvert]

I'm rather conflicted over this one. T1 at Sears Point is the whole reason I started racing. Watching the 600's go through there and up the hill was like watching the very Primordial Forces on their day off. Awe inspiring to say the least.

That said, I was in that corner when Frosty bit it. I watched Ernie's get together there last year. I've heard VERY tough and seasoned cornerworkers refuse to work the corner for fear of their lives due to the lack of safe hiding places. I've also heard other cornerworkers totally lose their shit realizing how close to death they'd come when bikes went down with their names on them.

On an SV the old T1/T2 combo was one of the most difficult, most rewarding corner combinations on our schedule. Screaming up that hill, throttle to the stop, knee down, front getting twitchy, looking for my line markers as I flew up the hill was the sort of thing that I live for.

Even though it pains me, I can't say I'm upset about the decision to reduce the odds of fatal or nearly fatal wrecks by slowing the corner down. What I am upset about is the shitty piece of nothing we're left with as the replacement. The new T1 is crap. How is the new T1 crap? Let me count the ways:
1) It kills the track for small bikes. The apex is slow enough that there's very little to be gained by better apex speeds. It's a stop and go one line corner with a long uphil drive out. On a bike that doesn't have enough power to spin the rear wheel at less than 45 degrees of lean angle it completely removes the rider from the equation. The fastest guy from T11 to T2 on a sub 100HP bike will be the guy with the best power to weight ratio with very little input from his skill level.
2) No amount of curbing or paving will fix the dirt track section on the exit. The track and the AMA built that corner before the hill was pulled back. That meant they couldn't put the apex far enough down the straight. When you come off the apex the fast line is to drive straight at T2. Unfortunately with the apex where it is that line isn't slow enough, and it still puts the riders driving much too close to the obstacles on the outside of T1. Therefore they had to pinch the exit with dirt which is a crappy non solution to the problem. Now that the hill is pushed back there's room to push the apex another 30 feet down the track which would make the geometry work.
3) On a small bike this T1 fucks T2. I've not ridden the new T1 with my flat slides and cams, but on a stock SV the trip up the hill was slow enough that T2 lost most of its challenge.
4) It further solidifies the notion that there's no problem with any race track that a half thought out chicane can't solve. Seriously, when do we get the T5 chicane?

I can accept that there's no way to make the old T1 safe enough. But this crappy assed turn is no permanent answer. At the bare minimum I hope we will continue to work with the folks at the track to improve this corner. I'm pretty confident this can and will happen.

On the flip side I'm going to propose something novel. What we're seeing here is essentially the bifurcation of our sport. Trackho and others will gladly emphasize that small bikes and big bikes have next to nothing in common. Get most of the big bike riders in an honest mood (and at least for Trackho that's all the time) and they'll admit that they only put up with small bikes polluting their race and track days is cause we help cover the costs. Frankly I think USGPRU has the right idea. As time goes on and liter bikes go from 180HP to 250HP to 300HP pretending they can coexist with smaller bikes will get harder and harder.

The motorcycle industry and the buying public are clearly moving away from the things that sport bikes used to be, and small sport bikes in general are a thing of the past. AHRMA is already on the band wagon with its singles/twins class that doesn't have strong year restrictions. If it means I get to race my SV without the T1 chicane, the T5 chicane, the T6/T7 chicane, and the T8/T8a chicane I'll be happy to leave the AFM to the knuckle dragger bikes and go play with the vintage guys.

 

[khill]

This small bike vs. big bike is kinda interesting. I guess I am just a different kind of racer....I approach any track any turn and try to figure out how to go as fast as I can through it, plain and simple. Does it wreck the flow, maybe. Does it open a new challenge for setting your brake marker to achieve the best drive up the hill, yes. The old turn one rewarded bravado, the new turn one rewards skill. Is your glass half full or half empty.....

Personally, it doesn't matter if I am riding a 7hp XR100 or a 185hp superbike, I take whatever I have and maximize the condiitons.

Ken

 

[TWF]

Personally, it doesn't matter if I am riding a 7hp XR100 or a 185hp superbike, I take whatever I have and maximize the condiitons.

Ken

which one you rather fall off in turn 1?

 

[khill]

which one you rather fall off in turn 1?

I'd prefer not to fall at all.............

Ken

 

[Jimbo 460]

I am calling BS on that one Ken. You had more than 185 hp.

 

[TWF]

I'd prefer not to fall at all.............

Ken

right,but that was reason for change,wasn't it?
bonus you get to practice for AMA

 

[jrace]

I'm rather conflicted over this one. T1 at Sears Point is the whole reason I started racing. Watching the 600's go through there and up the hill was like watching the very Primordial Forces on their day off. Awe inspiring to say the least.

That said, I was in that corner when Frosty bit it. I watched Ernie's get together there last year. I've heard VERY tough and seasoned cornerworkers refuse to work the corner for fear of their lives due to the lack of safe hiding places. I've also heard other cornerworkers totally lose their shit realizing how close to death they'd come when bikes went down with their names on them.

On an SV the old T1/T2 combo was one of the most difficult, most rewarding corner combinations on our schedule. Screaming up that hill, throttle to the stop, knee down, front getting twitchy, looking for my line markers as I flew up the hill was the sort of thing that I live for.

Even though it pains me, I can't say I'm upset about the decision to reduce the odds of fatal or nearly fatal wrecks by slowing the corner down. What I am upset about is the shitty piece of nothing we're left with as the replacement. The new T1 is crap. How is the new T1 crap? Let me count the ways:
1) It kills the track for small bikes. The apex is slow enough that there's very little to be gained by better apex speeds. It's a stop and go one line corner with a long uphil drive out. On a bike that doesn't have enough power to spin the rear wheel at less than 45 degrees of lean angle it completely removes the rider from the equation. The fastest guy from T11 to T2 on a sub 100HP bike will be the guy with the best power to weight ratio with very little input from his skill level.
2) No amount of curbing or paving will fix the dirt track section on the exit. The track and the AMA built that corner before the hill was pulled back. That meant they couldn't put the apex far enough down the straight. When you come off the apex the fast line is to drive straight at T2. Unfortunately with the apex where it is that line isn't slow enough, and it still puts the riders driving much too close to the obstacles on the outside of T1. Therefore they had to pinch the exit with dirt which is a crappy non solution to the problem. Now that the hill is pushed back there's room to push the apex another 30 feet down the track which would make the geometry work.
3) On a small bike this T1 fucks T2. I've not ridden the new T1 with my flat slides and cams, but on a stock SV the trip up the hill was slow enough that T2 lost most of its challenge.
4) It further solidifies the notion that there's no problem with any race track that a half thought out chicane can't solve. Seriously, when do we get the T5 chicane?

I can accept that there's no way to make the old T1 safe enough. But this crappy assed turn is no permanent answer. At the bare minimum I hope we will continue to work with the folks at the track to improve this corner. I'm pretty confident this can and will happen.

On the flip side I'm going to propose something novel. What we're seeing here is essentially the bifurcation of our sport. Trackho and others will gladly emphasize that small bikes and big bikes have next to nothing in common. Get most of the big bike riders in an honest mood (and at least for Trackho that's all the time) and they'll admit that they only put up with small bikes polluting their race and track days is cause we help cover the costs. Frankly I think USGPRU has the right idea. As time goes on and liter bikes go from 180HP to 250HP to 300HP pretending they can coexist with smaller bikes will get harder and harder.

The motorcycle industry and the buying public are clearly moving away from the things that sport bikes used to be, and small sport bikes in general are a thing of the past. AHRMA is already on the band wagon with its singles/twins class that doesn't have strong year restrictions. If it means I get to race my SV without the T1 chicane, the T5 chicane, the T6/T7 chicane, and the T8/T8a chicane I'll be happy to leave the AFM to the knuckle dragger bikes and go play with the vintage guys.

That is one of the best posts I've read on BARF in years.

-jim

 

[TWF]

actually Scott,smaller bikes will always be there,they will just grow up little.
instead ninja 250 been small it will be gsrzx600.