Close one on Pinehurst - another effing M4M thread/rant

[sifr]

Thats fucking nice, you guys have told me this over and over, I realized this. You treat your own the same bla bla bla.... i got that. The post I QUOTED had me under the assumption he meant it's not dangerious for people in cars when motorcycles cross the DY.

and read other posts about the "correcting people" i made.

And the post *I* quoted gave me the impression that you don't get it. Here it is again:

you are saying takes skill to drive on, you're saying doesn't take skill to drive on in 2 lanes? If so that's just stupid. He said he has been going up there for 3 years and this is his first time anything like this happened, honestly i believe him. I doubt he'd bother wasting his time here if it wasn't. But i guess 1 close call in 3 years warrants him being reckless.

I rode a 1000, i suck at riding, and to be truthful i was scared. But what you just said is complete ignorance. Yes of course if you run into a bike he's most likely too die, motorcycles are death traps compared to vehicles. But if a bike crosses a DY who's to say the car wouldn't swerve and die running off the road or into the mountain? It goes both ways. Nobody owns the roads in this thread, motorcycles shouldn't get special consideration just because they're smaller than me. Remember it's not my choice to put you on a bike, it's your own, in this instance DivZ was 100% wrong but i feel as though you were trying to take this on a broader scale so i took it there.

 

[InsaneStang]

Kurt waited a week. that's ample time for DivZ to have done something resembling being an adult.

He didn't start to post until the 31st, the same day he talked to someone in person i think it's on page 14-16? But I get your point, just not sure it's the case here

Ya, know. You Nissan people are starting to PISS ME OFF.

I wrote, NICELY, here and on the 350 forum, how I was almost killed by a jerk crossing the double yellow.
I wrote, NICELY, how I had a 300 Z turbo.
I do not approve of the tough guy talk from people here on BARF.

But, if you don't get a damn grip on how dangerous this kind of driving is to EVERYONE. And if you don't just say, "hey, sorry. We'll work on it."

Then you are creating enemies with people who would rather be friends. And that never works out well, especially for YOU.

Nissan people? 3 years ago I liked Nissans. Theres no point to this statement the same way there isn't any point in "nissan people" comment.

I realize how dangerous it is and i have nothing to work on! I don't race up there i cruise there on occasion.

Especially for me? meaning? I don't understand that statement. I crashed when i was younger, a few months after getting my license actually.

 

[Psyclotron]

I rode a 1000, i suck at riding, and to be truthful i was scared. But what you just said is complete ignorance. Yes of course if you run into a bike he's most likely too die, motorcycles are death traps compared to vehicles. But if a bike crosses a DY who's to say the car wouldn't swerve and die running off the road or into the mountain? It goes both ways.

motos _are_ death traps when toogay wannabe racers cover the width of the entire road thru blind friggin corners with their wastes of steel

 

[InsaneStang]

And the post *I* quoted gave me the impression that you don't get it. Here it is again:

OK sorry, I understand it, and i knew how it sounded but I wrote it like that because of who i was quoting.

 

[Blind_Io]

Especially for me? meaning? I don't understand that statement. I crashed when i was younger, a few months after getting my license actually.

He's saying that you aren't doing a good job making friends here on BARF. We want to have good relationships with other car and moto groups in the area, and around the world, but your adversarial posts are turning potential friends into enemies.

 

[sfdj_tim]

Blind Io:

I never said he made a mistake, he used bad judgement with a potentially bad outcome. I agree, it was a choice. His bad judgement caused him to make the wrong choice. Hopefully he learns from it, hopefully.


cycle61:

I did miss Enchanter's post requesting people to tone it down. But I did notice a change in the overall demeanor in the thread though.

Apologies, well, you know how that goes. We were all young once, and screwed up or got busted doing something, and we tried to "explain our side" and apologize, (damage control). We knew the shit was hitting the fan, and the fan was on "HIGH". We just wanted the screw up to go away, not to get away with it. There's a difference. The guy came on this forum (remember, he didn't have to) and tried to "explain" his side but unfortunately got called on his half-truths. I say half-truths because part of what he was saying was probably true, but he twisted things around a bit. So many of us here pretend to be the hard-nosed type that would be totally cool with getting the maximum penalty with every screw up. Barfers are always looking for advice on how to minimize the fine when they get pulled over. There's always some reason (excuse) for doing something and they want to get out of it or hope the judge goes easy on them. Yes, speeding (or whatever) on your bike can cause an accident resulting in someone else getting hurt or killed. Hypocrisy and double standards. :|

But in true barf form, he was judged and got the book thrown at him. Everything from calling the police on him, to suggesting that he kill himself. Suggesting that he kill himself? What kind of person would say that to another? What the fuck is wrong with you people? That is a horrible, fucked up thing to say. He DOES NOT deserve that. That is crossing the line. And those of you that would say such a thing should really look inside of yourselves and reflect, because you have issues.

None of us knows this guy personally, he could be the nicest guy in the world. I'm not saying that what he did wasn't wrong but damn, give the guy a chance to redeem him himself and learn something. Be a bit more positive. I thought we were a community and would always help each other grow and learn, not just as motorcyclists, but as people.

 

[Psyclotron]

and so we circle back to the Rodney King stage

 

[highonF4i]

beat that thing till it's unrecognizable.
Posting just to be a part of the longest harangue in BARF history.

 

[Blind_Io]

But in true barf form, he was judged and got the book thrown at him. Everything from calling the police on him, to suggesting that he kill himself. Suggesting that he kill himself? What kind of person would say that to another? What the fuck is wrong with you people? That is a horrible, fucked up thing to say. He DOES NOT deserve that. That is crossing the line. And those of you that would say such a thing should really look inside of yourselves and reflect, because you have issues.

None of us knows this guy personally, he could be the nicest guy in the world. I'm not saying that what he did wasn't wrong but damn, give the guy a chance to redeem him himself and learn something. Be a bit more positive. I thought we were a community and would always help each other grow and learn, not just as motorcyclists, but as people.

So when is it ok to recommend suicide? After he kills someone? Two people? A family? Is it based on suffering, so we can only do that if his victim dies trapped in a burning car? I'm just wondering for future reference so next time I don't step over the line.

I don't know him personally, and I don't care to. He had his chance at redemption and he fucked it up. We offered encouragement, even posted links to driving schools and track days. Instead he ran because we asked the simple thing of taking responsibility for his actions. Now, it seems, his "crew" have come to his defense, putting up a screen to shield him from the consequences. We, as a community, extended the hand and offered guidance - he rejected it by not manning up. How can one guide someone who does not believe he is in sole control of his actions?

 

[InsaneStang]

Then please, by all means, explain to me how his posts took sole responsibility for his actions.

Please outline how his pledge to continue driving on public roads this way, but warning us of the times he will be there, constitutes changing his ways.

He had a chance and he blew it Kurt could have immediately filed a police report, but waited to hear what the kid had to say. When DivineZ continued to shovel blame around and lie to us (The Miata almost hit him, the Miata brake-checked him, etc) Kurt decided he had enough and the best way to teach the kid a lesson was to involve the authorities, and thus the kid's parents.

I think Kurt showed incredible patience and willingness to listen and DivineZ blew his one and only chance. Why would Kurt want to waste his time to meet someone who will continue to make excuses for his dangerous choices?

Please make your answers count, I have more than a bit of experience working with criminal and "behaviorally challenged" adolescents.

Simple, what he said online may not have been a lie. No matter how much you THINK it is. If someone is willing too meet in person, why not take him up on it instantly? Instead many people kept e-thuggin (maybe trade thuggin with thrashing)

He's saying that you aren't doing a good job making friends here on BARF. We want to have good relationships with other car and moto groups in the area, and around the world, but your adversarial posts are turning potential friends into enemies.

I do this with my own friends, i have plenty of enemies, and if that's how people are taking me to be then oh well, just add to the list i guess. The last few people who have been replying too me have been pretty damn cool, and i appreciate it. You're going to look at something one way, I'm going to look at it another, but I'm willing to hear people out, even the ones that have been douches to me.

Thanks for clarifying though though

 

[Cheyenne]

Wow, this thread is gnarly, someone musta got hurt really bad...





























Butthurt really bad, that is.

 

[Brokenlink]

You know, at first this post was interesting.

Then it became humorous and fun.

Now it's just plain stupid and boring.

So I would kike to submit for your reconsideration:

 

[kaihonu82]

So when is it ok to recommend suicide? After he kills someone? Two people? A family? Is it based on suffering, so we can only do that if his victim dies trapped in a burning car? I'm just wondering for future reference so next time I don't step over the line.

I don't know him personally, and I don't care to. He had his chance at redemption and he fucked it up. We offered encouragement, even posted links to driving schools and track days. Instead he ran because we asked the simple thing of taking responsibility for his actions. Now, it seems, his "crew" have come to his defense, putting up a screen to shield him from the consequences. We, as a community, extended the hand and offered guidance - he rejected it by not manning up. How can one guide someone who does not believe he is in sole control of his actions?

seriously?..i think it's time for someone to get off his soapbox.

you manage to find fault with anything anyone ever says! now you're turning on fellow barfers? if you have all this free time to post up elaborate responses why not get off your butt and go ride, its a gorgeous day!

 

[Burning1]

Great points, and I'm disappointed that so many posters took it an an opportunity to make things worse and more divided as opposed to better.

The only ones that "win" are those that don't want *anyone* using *their* roads.

"Better" isn't about mending hurt feelings and tear felt apologies. Feelings and apologies wont keep people from being killed by this kind of asshattery. We're happy to see guys like DevineZ enjoying the road, so long as he's not using both sides of it.

Most of us want this situation to get better. We just have a different idea than you do of what "better" actually is.

 

[Blind_Io]

Simple, what he said online may not have been a lie. No matter how much you THINK it is. If someone is willing too meet in person, why not take him up on it instantly? Instead many people kept e-thuggin (maybe trade thuggin with thrashing)

I have stated, in detail, why I think DivineZ was spewing bullshit in his posts. I have one degree in Psychology, most my doctorate credits have been completed and I have experience working with conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder and criminal adolescents. I have also worked with drug addicts and on lock-down psychiatric wings.

I have heard just about every excuse, rationalization, and justification for destructive behavior there is.

Sir, I know bullshit when I smell it.

seriously?..i think it's time for someone to get off his soapbox.

you manage to find fault with anything anyone ever says! now you're turning on fellow barfers? if you have all this free time to post up elaborate responses why not get off your butt and go ride, its a gorgeous day!

I'm not turning on my fellow BARFers, I'm just making a point.

 

[Cheyenne]

"Better" isn't about mending hurt feelings and tear felt apologies. Feelings and apologies wont keep people from being killed by this kind of asshattery. We're happy to see guys like DevineZ enjoying the road, so long as he's not using both sides of it.

Most of us want this situation to get better. We just have a different idea than you do of what "better" actually is.

Better is about reaching out to people who are asshats in a way that actually has a possible chance of getting them to see the light, and not just push them away, then slam them for not being man enough to take the heat.

It's not about going easy on them, it's about not letting them get away. We got to bag on him for a couple days...if we'd sucked him into the moto world we could still be bagging on him for this years from now...and he would be more assured of passing it along in the future "One time, when I was an asshat with a Z car, I screwed up, lemme tell ya 'bout it..."

It's possible to be right about everything you say, but wrong in the message you are sending.

 

[InsaneStang]

I have stated, in detail, why I think DivineZ was spewing bullshit in his posts. I have one degree in Psychology, most my doctorate credits have been completed and I have experience working with conduct disorder, oppositional defiant disorder and criminal adolescents. I have also worked with drug addicts and on lock-down psychiatric wings.

I have heard just about every excuse, rationalization, and justification for destructive behavior there is.
.

WOW you really must be good!!!! *CLAPS HANDS* You can read
peoples emotions? Your a joke. You didn't have one word with him on the phone, you never seen him eye to eye, so seriously i wish you'd take your own advise, get off your imaginary throne and blow your brains out.

He MIGHT be lying about the whole thing might not. you're extremely quick to judge things you obviously don't know.

But since your so good, PLEASE PLEASE... Oh magical one... Please read my future!

 

[Burning1]

It's possible to be right about everything you say, but wrong in the message you are sending.

Agreed, but you really can't expect much from a large group. Saying the right things takes a lot of thought and a co-cohesive message. You aren't going to get that with 100 people involved and a lot of emotions on the line.

For what it's worth, Kurt did a good job of trying to reach out. Even with all the noise, the driving guys still could have met him halfway.

 

[Psyclotron]

seriously?..i think it's time for someone to get off his soapbox.

you manage to find fault with anything anyone ever says! now you're turning on fellow barfers? if you have all this free time to post up elaborate responses why not get off your butt and go ride, its a gorgeous day!

good job, all the divine crew are cheerleading for you now. what were you saying about "turning on fellow barfers"?

 

[Psyclotron]

WOW you really must be good!!!! *CLAPS HANDS* You can read
peoples emotions? Your a joke. You didn't have one word with him on the phone, you never seen him eye to eye, so seriously i wish you'd take your own advise, get off your imaginary throne and blow your brains out.

He MIGHT be lying about the whole thing might not. you're extremely quick to judge things you obviously don't know.

But since your so good, PLEASE PLEASE... Oh magical one... Please read my future!

obvious troll is obvious

now we're just going in circles.

all the proof of his/your lies have been documented by Kurt throughout this thread.