NFL 2020

[mikev]

Uh what about him? I didn't say they didn't have a left tackle. I stand by what I said. The acquisition of Mathieu could be argued that's what got them over the hump.

or it could be trading for Frank Clark, and already having Chris Jones, oh and that Kermit the Frog sounding MFer behind center.


Point being, Seattle doesn't have all that shit in place. They're hoping 31 year old Russ Wilson can keep running for his life behind the nO-Line they've got.

Instead of getting their MVP caliber QB some help while they are still potentially in a window to contend, they give up 2 firsts for a defensive back.

 

[scootergmc]

or it could be trading for Frank Clark, and already having Chris Jones, oh and that Kermit the Frog sounding MFer behind center.


Point being, Seattle doesn't have all that shit in place. They're hoping 31 year old Russ Wilson can keep running for his life behind the nO-Line they've got.

Instead of getting their MVP caliber QB some help while they are still potentially in a window to contend, they give up 2 firsts for a defensive back.

Oh I see, now it's a backpedaling post about Seattle, agreeing with my previous sentiment. No worries, I get it.

 

[scootergmc]

Adams is a fucking beast I don't care what y'all say though. He does it all. I'm glad he won't be in the AFC, especially the ass-whooping he put on the Raiders last year and the fact they have to play them again in NY this year (thanks NFL schedulers...you're a bunch of peaches).

He does, and he knows it. I'm just not sure he's worth it. Seattle was going to draft two RBs with those #1 picks anyway, so there's that too.

 

[Eldritch]

That's entirely dependent on your offense and QB style. KC chose a safety last year (Mathieu) for whom an easy argument could be made they don't get over the hump without him. A solid anchor at safety makes everything easier defensively. It's just not sexy unless there's an entire legion of boom.

I'd rather Seattle shore up their O-line, especially when their play calling is so atrociously 1985, but they haven't done that, even when they were crushing fools en route to superbowl appearances.

No. Just no. Tackles get paid the way they do because of what they do.

Don't get me wrong, I love some good safety play. My guys are known for playing a 3 Safety set in a lot of schemes, but still, Safety is a second tier position.

The only Safety ever taken #1 overall in the Draft was Gary Glick by the Steelers in 1956.

 

[CocoLoco]

Well, Schneider built the last defense, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt with this trade, but yikes.

Did he though?

If we're talking about the LoB most all of the players were brought on board while McCloughan was the personnel exec. He's been gone since 2014. The personnel he put together held Seattle in the top ten team defense from 2010 to 2016 and most of the players McCloughan picked/brought on board were still there for the three years after he left (2014-2016). How has Schneider filled the gaps as the years have passed? Seattle hasn't been a top ten team defense in three years and they lose players like Clark because they don't want to pay them. Why not? Because they (Schneider) don't see the value in keeping them.

Maybe Schneider's just been the recipient of bad results due to the good fortune of having a winning club. People leave because the money is better elsewhere. Maybe he's the one who should be given credit for building that defense. It could also be that he is good he's just not McCloughan of the 2010's good and they are going to continue to win right up until they have to replace Wilson (who was also selected while McCloughan was there).

Food for thought and all.

 

[scootergmc]

Did he though?

He did.

 

[scootergmc]

No. Just no. Tackles get paid the way they do because of what they do.

Singular position comparison, normally then no. But when your offense consists of Russell Wilson or Mahomes, their style of play renders a tackle less important. Therefore, the play of the defense can be prioritized to a greater extent under the cap. Now, with the majority of pocket passers it's absolutely true.

 

[Eldritch]

Singular position comparison, normally then no. But when your offense consists of Russell Wilson or Mahomes, their style of play renders a tackle less important. Therefore, the play of the defense can be prioritized to a greater extent under the cap. Now, with the majority of pocket passers it's absolutely true.

But it doesn't.
It can be argued along those lines that have a monster O-Line makes the QB and RB position less valuable.

Running is always a worst case scenario for a QB. Saying a guy CAN run doesn't mean he should. Pocket time still matters, even for guys that scramble and Tackles still need to road grade with the Guard when you do run to the outside, which is where a QB is usually scrambling to escape pressure from the other side. Bookend Behemoths are some of the most important positions in the game, which is why they get drafted #1 and why they get paid like it.

 

[mikev]

Oh I see, now it's a backpedaling post about Seattle, agreeing with my previous sentiment. No worries, I get it.

the fuck are you even talking about? This entire conversation was started by saying Seattle overpaid like a motherfucker for Adams, and then you somehow turned that into KC signing Honey Badger as a free agent being equivalent

 

[scootergmc]

the fuck are you even talking about? This entire conversation was started by saying Seattle overpaid like a motherfucker for Adams, and then you somehow turned that into KC signing Honey Badger as a free agent being equivalent

Calm down Francis, there's no equivalency, you're just inferring it. A comparison was drawn between the value at position in specific circumstances. A safety can have substantial value and have a drastic impact on the field.

 

[scootergmc]

But it doesn't.
It can be argued along those lines that have a monster O-Line makes the QB and RB position less valuable.

Running is always a worst case scenario for a QB. Saying a guy CAN run doesn't mean he should. Pocket time still matters, even for guys that scramble and Tackles still need to road grade with the Guard when you do run to the outside, which is where a QB is usually scrambling to escape pressure from the other side. Bookend Behemoths are some of the most important positions in the game, which is why they get drafted #1 and why they get paid like it.

Running isn't the worst case scenario anymore. It's not encouraged at all, but with the college style becoming all the rage, those with wheels are allowing GMs to take other factors into consideration. I do agree LTs are valued higher than a safety and for the most part should be, but in certain situations, a safety can have more of an impact on the field.

 

[mikev]

Calm down Francis, there's no equivalency, you're just inferring it. A comparison was drawn between the value at position in specific circumstances. A safety can have substantial value and have a drastic impact on the field.

I don't disagree with that.

It's also possible for Seattle to have wildly overpaid.

Both of those things can be true.

 

[Eldritch]

Running isn't the worst case scenario anymore. It's not encouraged at all, but with the college style becoming all the rage, those with wheels are allowing GMs to take other factors into consideration. I do agree LTs are valued higher than a safety and for the most part should be, but in certain situations, a safety can have more of an impact on the field.

Utter nonsense. Having a guy that can scramble to save a play is more valuable because Defense keeps getting faster, but the read option always wants you to throw first because your average yards per play are just better and you don't risk your QB's body.

A guy with wheels does the same thing he always did, he makes you watch out over the middle and keeps your MLB from dropping back in coverage during Passing Downs.

They tried the, "Run First," QB with the Pistol Offense trend that lasted like 2 seasons (the only 2 seasons Kaep was useful) and after it destroyed RGIII, DC's figured out if you drop a spy at the line, it kills the option and you force him to win through the air.

Most the college offenses are not running much. Mahomes Averaged like 20 yards a game last year. The best running QB ever to play was probably Steve Young and all he ever did was 35 yards a game in his runningest season he ever had.

Guys who are just RB in disguise like Michael Vick and Lamar Jackson never amount to shit, because they are not playing the game right. It creates an exciting gimmick that hides flaws in your offense so you cna get some cheap wins against mediocre teams, but just like Kaep showed in the big game and Vick (best runner in QB History) showed in whole career, that guy always loses in the post season.

 

[scootergmc]

I don't disagree with that.

It's also possible for Seattle to have wildly overpaid.

Both of those things can be true.

And I don't see how the 2nd can't be true. I believe the Jets and Dallas almost had a deal for a 1st and a 3rd but I don't remember the fallout. Regardless, this has to be a win within three years deal for Seattle. Here's hoping there's enough salary cap left to sign Kittle when he walks from the 49ers.

 

[mikev]

Kittle isn't going anywhere.

 

[mikev]

Jimmy G #43 on the NFL Top 100.

I'll wait for people to flip out.

 

[Eldritch]

Jimmy G #43 on the NFL Top 100.

I'll wait for people to flip out.

Please also allow them to see his #15th best QB Rating

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelp...rting-quarterbacks-2020-carson-wentz#slide-41

 

[mikev]

(it's voted on by the players)

 

[mikev]

also, what the fuck is that list?

Cam Newton at 14 when he didn't even play? Tannehill in the top 10? I that like a list of top ESPN highlight time?

Sheesh.

 

[scootergmc]

Utter nonsense. Having a guy that can scramble to save a play is more valuable because Defense keeps getting faster, but the read option always wants you to throw first because your average yards per play are just better and you don't risk your QB's body.

A guy with wheels does the same thing he always did, he makes you watch out over the middle and keeps your MLB from dropping back in coverage during Passing Downs.

They tried the, "Run First," QB with the Pistol Offense trend that lasted like 2 seasons (the only 2 seasons Kaep was useful) and after it destroyed RGIII, DC's figured out if you drop a spy at the line, it kills the option and you force him to win through the air.

Most the college offenses are not running much. Mahomes Averaged like 20 yards a game last year. The best running QB ever to play was probably Steve Young and all he ever did was 35 yards a game in his runningest season he ever had.

Guys who are just RB in disguise like Michael Vick and Lamar Jackson never amount to shit, because they are not playing the game right. It creates an exciting gimmick that hides flaws in your offense so you cna get some cheap wins against mediocre teams, but just like Kaep showed in the big game and Vick (best runner in QB History) showed in whole career, that guy always loses in the post season.

Let's not compare Kaep to anything. Dude is a suckballs one read talent. RGIII couldn't transition. Lamar is a beast and way too big to be a RB. I could go on, but let your hate flow. But "running" is not the same as rushing. Scrambling, out of pocket passing, are all being taken into account when speaking of a running QB. That doesn't necessarily translate to rushing. Perhaps I should've been more clear at the outset rather than just say "running." That's my bad.

Otherwise, someone recently wrote a decent article on out of pocket passing (EPA or some sabremetrics) and its recent change to the league at the QB position. I'll see if I can find it. Regardless, the league is changing, whether RPO or OOP passing, it's the new NFL, and the o-line will continue to see an impact at value to the position if the trend continues.