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Really Salinas?

Beauregard said:
I mean it would be really cool if they were going to use it go to war against Santa Maria. But they're not.

They're going to use it on who?

552x442xsalinas-po-death-machine.jpg.pagespeed.ic.gVerLN84fH.jpg

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ath-machine-complete-with-machine-gun-turret/
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Salinas is a pretty quite town but it could go all bad very quickly with that large prison and rival gangs claiming most of Salinas up for their own. Not to mention the large amount of drugs that go through that area. It's peaceful and that tank is probably not needed but I am sure once the prison goes to shit and inmates break out that the residents will want something like that.
 

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Kornholio said:
As someone that actually holds a military operator's license for this and many other military vehicles large and small, I can assure you that there isn't much more to it than driving a truck and anyone with a standard amount of common sense can jump into the drivers seat and be safely under way in a short amount of time. 88M's (U.S. Army's MOS for vehicle operator) seriously over inflate how important they think their job is. Nine times out of ten, the operators of these vehicles weren't 88M's, they were Infantryman or Engineers who received a few hours of on-the-job training and that's it. The only people that will not be comfortable operating this vehicle will be people who aren't comfortable driving large equipment. It really isn't difficult at all. Remember who the contractors have to design the vehicle around (the dumbest Army Private) and remember that all the manuals have to be written at a 10th grade reading level. I'm sure your typical police officer can handle this thing without a full course in its operation.

In short, RTFM.
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Only reason I brought up training is because the friends I know in LE seem to get training for all sorts of things one might not expect there is really a need for. And not just the initial training, but follow on too.

My whole point is that even if the trucks are being given away, there will likely be a significant operating expense.

edit: And I'm not trying to single out police. This is just government bureaucracy.
 
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mlm said:
My whole point is that even if the trucks are being given away, there will likely be a significant operating expense.
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Just write more parking and speeding tickets. I wouldn't care I never go to Salinas, sounds like too much of a shithole :laughing
 
mlm said:
My whole point is that even if the trucks are being given away, there will likely be a significant operating expense.
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Absolutely. I'm pretty sure I still have the electronic technical manual for these things on my work laptop. The scheduled service work alone is gonna be a pain in the ass for any department.
 
It also won't get the same amount of miles put on it that the military would. Municipal agencies don't have that much ground to cover. Probably less than 1k miles per year for a city like Salinas.
 
Nick said:
It also won't get the same amount of miles put on it that the military would. Municipal agencies don't have that much ground to cover. Probably less than 1k miles per year for a city like Salinas.
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All the more reason for upkeep-batteries go dead in something that isn't regularly driven. Fuel goes off, tires get flat spots.

The worst thing you can do to a vehicle is not use it-they die that way.
 
Nick said:
It also won't get the same amount of miles put on it that the military would. Municipal agencies don't have that much ground to cover. Probably less than 1k miles per year for a city like Salinas.
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The maintenance schedule is based on time as well. Believe it or not, the military does not put a lot of miles on its vehicles. The most miles I've ever seen on a HMMWV (which are used considerably more than MRAPs are) was in the range of 24,000 miles. This was on a non-uparmored model right after I got to Iraq and was of the 3-speed auto vintage so it was quite old...probably a mid 80's model. It's not like we're using these things to drive across the country all the time. And the versions that are here in CONUS are barely used at the level that people seem to think they are.
 
Kornholio said:
The maintenance schedule is based on time as well. Believe it or not, the military does not put a lot of miles on its vehicles. The most miles I've ever seen on a HMMWV (which are used considerably more than MRAPs are) was in the range of 24,000 miles. This was on a non-uparmored model right after I got to Iraq and was of the 3-speed auto vintage so it was quite old...probably a mid 80's model. It's not like we're using these things to drive across the country all the time. And the versions that are here in CONUS are barely used at the level that people seem to think they are.
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That's a waste of my tax dollars! RABBLE rabble rabble. I pay your salary and you do fake maintenance on vehicles that don't even get driven! RABBLE rabble rabble
 
Tharkûn said:
That's a waste of my tax dollars! RABBLE rabble rabble. I pay your salary and you do fake maintenance on vehicles that don't even get driven! RABBLE rabble rabble
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:laughing

I don't personally work on MRAPs, Alex. I prefer the flying machines. :thumbup

But in order to stay combat ready, with any vehicle, you can't just pour in some Stabil and plug in a tender. :laughing
 
Kornholio said:
As someone that actually holds a military operator's license for this and many other military vehicles large and small, I can assure you that there isn't much more to it than driving a truck and anyone with a standard amount of common sense can jump into the drivers seat and be safely under way in a short amount of time. 88M's (U.S. Army's MOS for vehicle operator) seriously over inflate how important they think their job is. Nine times out of ten, the operators of these vehicles weren't 88M's, they were Infantryman or Engineers who received a few hours of on-the-job training and that's it. The only people that will not be comfortable operating this vehicle will be people who aren't comfortable driving large equipment. It really isn't difficult at all. Remember who the contractors have to design the vehicle around (the dumbest Army Private) and remember that all the manuals have to be written at a 10th grade reading level. I'm sure your typical police officer can handle this thing without a full course in its operation.

In short, RTFM.
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To be fair, operating vehicles like this in Metro areas is far difference than operating them in open roads. Also, the use of these would be during high intensity/stress engagements. Now just from my perspective having held a license to operate firetrucks (close to similar size/weight of vehicle) a few hours of training will get you the basics. It takes many hours to master driving a large vehicle where you sit high off the ground. Blind alley backing, tight turns etc etc take hours of practice. Now add Code 3, officer down, shots fired etc to the mix and I don't think "just a few hours" of training are sufficient for an operator of these things.

Now...consider these vehicles will probably only come out during parades and dog and pony shows initially, the operators are not going to have a lot of time behind the wheel at heightened alert like an Army guy in Iraq would have. So it is going to take HOURS of training with these to be proficient in urban/metro areas.

Just my :2cents
 
I drove one of these in Nashville with no issues. I'd imagine a fire truck is far more difficult to operate than an MRAP. They're just not that long.
 
Nick said:
The officer is getting paid whether he/she is in training or not, so that's not really a fair way of looking at it.
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Seems like a fair way of looking at it to me. If you are doing an extra 2 weeks of training that you wouldn't otherwise do, then somebody has to fill in your position while you are in training. So we are paying your salary, plus the salary of somebody filling in your patrol, possibly earning overtime pay.

Personally I don't see what's wrong with a bread van for swat. The vehicle is used for moving people from point A to point B. It isn't used for making a full frontal assault under fire. I don't imagine a swat van normally takes on enemy fire while transporting people.
 
teg916 said:
Seems like a fair way of looking at it to me. If you are doing an extra 2 weeks of training that you wouldn't otherwise do, then somebody has to fill in your position while you are in training. So we are paying your salary, plus the salary of somebody filling in your patrol, possibly earning overtime pay.

Personally I don't see what's wrong with a bread van for swat. The vehicle is used for moving people from point A to point B. It isn't used for making a full frontal assault under fire. I don't imagine a swat van normally takes on enemy fire while transporting people.
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But these can be used for a lot more than just transporting people from point A to point B. They would be good for dealing with armed barricaded suspects. They can also be used to rescue downed officers or civilians who are in the line of fire.
 
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teg916 said:
Seems like a fair way of looking at it to me. If you are doing an extra 2 weeks of training that you wouldn't otherwise do, then somebody has to fill in your position while you are in training. So we are paying your salary, plus the salary of somebody filling in your patrol, possibly earning overtime pay.

Personally I don't see what's wrong with a bread van for swat. The vehicle is used for moving people from point A to point B. It isn't used for making a full frontal assault under fire. I don't imagine a swat van normally takes on enemy fire while transporting people.
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If the department has to back fill the shift with overtime, then the added cost is incurred (1.5x the officer's pay typically). But there are other ways of scheduling that don't create overtime such as adjusting shifts or using personnel not assigned to patrol (motors, school resource officers, etc...) to cover the shifts.

An armored vehicle could be used for more than transporting operators. There are more uses for a SWAT vehicle than just transporting operators to and from a mission site, such as throw phone delivery, downed hostage/officer rescue, forcing entry, or anything else that puts operators in th line of fire.
 
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Anyone bring this video up yet? Small town, dude armors up a tractor, police can't stop him.

[youtube]qlZh9-NQEyI[/youtube]
 
teg916 said:
Seems like a fair way of looking at it to me. If you are doing an extra 2 weeks of training that you wouldn't otherwise do, then somebody has to fill in your position while you are in training. So we are paying your salary, plus the salary of somebody filling in your patrol, possibly earning overtime pay.

Personally I don't see what's wrong with a bread van for swat. The vehicle is used for moving people from point A to point B. It isn't used for making a full frontal assault under fire. I don't imagine a swat van normally takes on enemy fire while transporting people.
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1) We just run short, there is no backfill
2) The machine isn't used to go from A to B it's made to go from B to the front door without sheet metal being your only protection
 
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